Councilors Council officers members of
the public gallery and the broader
community following the meeting via live
streaming welcome to the 20 February
2024 council meeting in accordance with
council's governance rules members of
the community were afforded the
opportunity to provide a written
statement or request to speak in
relation to eligible agenda items for
tonight's meeting this meeting is being
recorded and streamed live on the
internet to enhance the accessibility of
Council meetings to the broader Bayside
Community the recordings are archived
and available on council's website all
care is taken to maintain your privacy
however as a visitor in the public
gallery your presence may be recorded a
reminder also to councilors officers and
members of the public gallery to check
that your mobile phones are switched off
or placed on silent during the meeting
thank you councilors we will now
commence with the items on the
agenda prayer I would like to invite
councelor Castelli to read the prayer
could all present who are able please
stand thank you
may oh God bless this city Bayside give
us courage strength and wisdom so that
our deliberations may be for the good
of all Amen
Amen acknowledgement of country please
remain standing and I would like to
invite councilor del Porto to read the
acknowledgement of country thank you
Madam Mayor Bayside City Council proudly
acknowledges the Bunurong people of the
Kulin Nation as the traditional owners
and custodians of this land and we pay
our respect to the elders past present
and emerging as well as any Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander community
members with us today Council
acknowledges the Bunurong's continued
relationship to the land and waterways
in respect to their connection and
spiritual identities maintained
through ancient ceremonies song line
dance art and living culture Council
pays tribute to the invariable
contributions of the Bunurong and other
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island Elders who
have guided and continue to guide the
work we
do apologies there are no apologies for
this evening's
meeting there are also no declarations
of interest for this tonight's
meeting five adoption and confirmation
of the minutes of the previous meetings
5.1 confirmation of the minutes of the
Bayside City Council meeting held on
19th November 2023 could I have a mover
thank you councilor Martin seconded
councelor Evans all those in favour
councilors Castelli delto Evans Martin
Samuel King El Mouallem and Stitfold
carried public question
time in accordance with council's
governance rules there will be a maximum
of 15 minutes allocated for public
question time the questions and
responses read out during this time will
be published in the minutes all
questions even those not read out in the
allotted time will be responded to in
writing no more than two questions with
a maximum of two parts to each question
are permitted per individual the reading
of each question will be limited to the
question only any associated preamble
will not be read out unless required for
clarity it should also be noted that on
occasion the CEO or Mayor determine
to redirect or disallow a question on the
basis that it does not comply with
council's governance rules there were
nine public questions
received question number one Mr John
Jesuit and apologies for my
pronunciation Mr John Jesuit submitted a
question related to the parking of
commercial trailers in residential
streets and Mr Jessa asked can you
please consider erecting no standing or
limited parking signs in relation to
commercial trailers in residential
streets or
neighborhoods response from the CEO
that's through chair pursuant to the
road management act 2004 council is
limited in the types of restrictions
that it can implement within a road
reserve registered trailer cannot be
restricted from being located on the
road where compliant with the
restriction council's local law
prohibits the lawful storage of trailers
caravans and boats from being placed on
the road for more than 28 continuous
days or 56 days in any 3 month
period any changes to restrictions
located within the road Reserve can be
considered an assess by council's
transport safety and engineering team
where a traffic safety need is
identified Council has the ability to
introduce traffic control
measures question number two Miss
Allison Joseph Miss Allison Joseph
submitted a question related to Yalukit
William Nature Reserve and Miss Joseph
asked a I have been informed that the
area of the proposed William Nature Reserve
is extremely contaminated given the
existence of two former gas work sites
in Brighton and the previous discovery
of benzo alpha pyrene within Yalukit William
Park suggesting dumping of Gas Works
waste have occurred what actions has
Council taken to minimize the exposure
of residents and members of the public
to harmful contaminants present in the
soil during the recent development Part
B has Council considered the effect that
these highly toxic substances and no ENC
carcinogens may have on the development
of the Nature Reserve or the potential
to increase the contamination of water
stored on or flowing from the site
response from the CEO through your
chair and response to part A of the
question prior to to any Works relating
to below grand excavation at the Yukulit
Willam Nature Reserve Council engaged a
suitably qualified contaminated land
consultant to undertake soil testing in
accordance with the requirements of the
environment protection act 2017 to
identify any contaminants on the site in
relation to Part B of the question an
area of below ground contamination was
discovered that the design of the chain
of ponds was altered to ensure the
contamination was not disturbed all
works completed upcoming within the Yukulit
Willam Nature Reserve will consider the
risks associated with managing
contaminated land in accordance with
council's legislative
responsibilities question number three
Mr Jeff Lee Mr Jeff Lee submitted a
question related to Yukulit Willam nature
reserve and Mr Lee asked my question
asked on the 18th of the 7th 2023
concerning Yukulit Willam formerly Stenwick
Reserve Council estimated the cost to
deliver the master plan was 22.3 35
million can the council provide an
updated cost of the project and its
timelines for its completion Part B in
the event the project requires extra
funds from state and federal governments
however if either both or one government
refus to providing either existing
proposed payments or extra funds how
will Council fund the project response
from the
CEO three chair and response to part one
of the question since July 2023 the
approximate project cost and timeline's
estimate provided has not changed
Council expects the cost of delivery of
the master plan to be approximately 22
million
$350,000 and works are currently
scheduled to be completed by June
2027 it is noted a significant
proportion of The Proposal is at the
design stage and these designs will
accord with allocated budget and
external funding in response to question
two should Council not obtain the level
of external funding
anticipated the project scope will be
reconsidered as part of council's
long-term financial plan and capital and
capital funding program to ensure that
it what is delivered on site aligns with
council's adopted budget question number
four from Mr Jeff Lee Mr Jeff Lee
submitted a further question the
question relates to Black Rock Life
Saving Club and Mr Lee asked Council has
provided in a past question that the
cost of construction of Black Rock Life
Saving Club was 8 million what is the
final total cost to construct and
complete all aspects of the clubhouse
including landscaping to hand over the
Pres premises to Black Rock Life Saving
club and number two was project
completed on time if not what were the
causes the delay now through your chair
in response to the first part of the
question the expected final cost to
construct a Black Rock Life Saving Club
of I is 7.24 million in relation to the
second part of the question the expected
completion date for works is Progressive
in accordance with the project schedule
with hand over to the lifesaving club
expected in Autumn
2024 question number five Mr Paul
Langley Mr Paul Langley submitted a
question regarding the Bayside Community
Sports Center and Mr Langley asked
council's newsletter dated 30th of
January 2024 under subheading use of the
news center advisers at the Bayside
District netball Association is managing
and operating the Sport Center this
appears contrary to the January 2020
directive from councilors to the CEO and
staff that the center would be managed
by the Bayside city council and access
and full use would be by way of a lease
of 10 plus 10 years to the Sandringham
and District netball Association would you
please advise one who are the parties to
the lease agreement and two who are the
parties to the license agreements
response from the CEO through chair in
response to the first part of the
question there is no lease agreement in
place as Council does not own the
facility
there was a community joint use
agreement between the Minister for
Education Sandringham Secondary College
and Bayside City Council in relation to
part two the license agreement for the
facilities is between the minister for
Education Sandringham Secondary College
Bayside city council and the Bayside
District Netball
Association question number six Mr Jeff
Naylor Mr Jeff Naylor submitted a question
regarding facilities at sporting venues
and Mr Naylor asked part one why does bide
city council consider people in
wheelchairs who are unable to
self-transfer Unworthy of suitable
bathrooms at sporting venues in Bayside
part two why is Council restricting
their
attendance response from the CEO that's
three chair all new and redeveloped
sporting club pinions constructed within
the municipality comply with the
disability Discrimination Act 1992 DDA
standards this includes each Pavilion
having a DDA Compliant toilet and shower
within each of the change rooms and a
DDA compliant public toilet Council
continues to work with the Department of
fairness families and housing to install
changing places facilities throughout
the
municipality question number SE seven Mr
Philip shalow Mr Philip shalet submitted
a question regarding Community
facilities and open space in the Willis
streate Precinct and Mr shalow asked
there is a proposal for a community
facilities in green open space in the
Willis Street prec
although the building of this town
square is commendable it seems the
traffic of buses in this Precinct is
bordering on catastrophic do you think
there is enough space for buses to
navigate this site space to turn and
Dodge traffic unload and load passenger
taking into account that a further 245
social flats are being built in Hampton
East so buses will be in high demand
response from the
CI through chair one of the purposes of
the proposed Hampton Hub project is
to rationalize the access Arrangements
within the Willer Street precinct the
detailed design of the Hampton Hub would
consider existing and future Road users
to ensure the ultimate design can
accommodate all users question number
eight Mr George Reynolds Mr George
Reynolds submitted a question regarding
an infringement notice and Mr Reynolds
asked I received an infringement notice
dated 19th of the 12th 2023 claiming an
offense against local law number two I
then responded with the selection of the
option to have the matter heard by the
court a given that that still of the
Local Government Act 1989 was revoked on
the 30th of 6 2021 is the two-month
delay in issuing a summons caused by the
court having difficulty in finding an
offense to charge me with or B is
Council seeking to issue a new
infringement notice using s81 of a local
law prepared after 1st of July 2021
response from the CEO through chair
infringements issued for alleged
defenses of council's neighborhood
amenity local law
2021 are legally enforceable question
number t nine Mr George Reynolds Mr
George Reynolds submitted a question
regarding Community facilities and open
space in the Willis Street area and Mr
Reynolds asked in council's audited
accounts for 2022 a prepayment entry of
8.05 million is shown which by notice is
to be converted to an asset value for
the right abuse asset this action must
now be implemented for the asset
identified as the Bayside netball Center
as the asset is now operational this
change would be applied during the
second quarter of
2023 a as the completed asset appears to
have been provided by the school to a
newly formed entity named Bayside and
District netball Association and not
Bayside city council acn1 1635 66621 the
rightful owner why was the right of use
apparently not delivered to Bayside city
council as contracted B is the
depreciated value of the asset now
anticipated to be refunded to council
following completion of the works and
alteration of the lease terms as
required by accounting standard double
ASB
16.23 and ASB 16.30 to 46 response from
the
CEO through your chair in response to
part A of the question the faciliity is
owned by the school council contribut $8
million to the development which under
the right of right of use agreement
provides Community access to the
facility over the 30-year life of the
community use
agreement Part B the question the $8
million upfront contribution will be
amortized over the life of the agreement
by Council council is not entitled to be
refunded the $8 million over the life of
the agreement that concludes public
Question
Time section s reception and reading of
petitions 7.1 one petition for Council
to make tree planting in h the most
urgent priority as part of the
implementation of the urban Forest
precent plans can I have a mover and a
seconder moved councelor castelli
seconded councelor
Evans thank you and the recommendation
councelor cell just have
to sorry thank you thank
you the recommendation that the petition
be received and considered in
conjunction with item 10.1 Vin Forest
pring plans on this
agenda can I just
continue all those in favour I'd like to
speak oh and the second was councelor
Evans I'd like to speak and you want to
speak you I'll just speak
to I'll speak to it all sorry sorry no
no coun I moved it so I'll speak to look
councilors I am supporting this petition
for H and urge you to join us as well so
residents in height are are passionate
about their community and feel neglected
compared to other suburbs in Bayside the
H progress Association the HPA
highlights in their
report the lack of Street trees and
trees cap canopy compared to other areas
they are worried about the upcoming
Urban Forest planned by Bayside Council
not addressing the Urgent tree planting
needs the HPA requests that tree
planting becomes a top priority in Hyatt
to enhance the urban environment so I
I'm also going to highlight I have a
motion but I'll deal with that motion in
the urban Forest section thank you
councelor cast councelor Evans oh thank
you Madame mayor you're happy to support
um and as Council Castell has
outlined in the urban Forest she has
um suggested an amendment to the
motion 10.1 which I support which says
prioritizes planting programs in the
height and pennydale princings given the
comparative lack of vegetation cover so
she suggested that this be an amendment
to the um the urban Forest
recommendation by councilors and I fully
support it councelor Martin yeah just
like to um recognize the high
progress Association I haven't seen um
material from them before so I wish them
all the well in advocating for the
residents of
H thank you there are no other speakers
so all those in favour councilors
castelli Del Porto Evans Martin Samuel
King El Mam and sfold carried there was
none
again Section 8 minutes of advisory
committees 8.1 record of meetings held
under the oaces of council can I have a
mover and seconder please so move counto
and councelor um
Martin and the recommendation being
councel
delto that Council Nots the records
of meetings held under the oric of
council is required by Local Government
Act 2020 and council's
governance rules thank you thank you all
those in favour councilors castelli Del
Porto Evans Martin El Samuel King L
Samuel King pardon Samuel King eloam and
sfold there are none against
Carri 8.2 minutes of the audit and risk
committee meeting held on the 27th of
November 2023 could I have a mover and a
second counc Evans mov castelli seconded
and the recommendation is councelor
Evans as printed madam as printed all
those in favour councilors castelli Del
Porto Evans Martin Samuel King eloam and
sfold there are none against
carried 8.3 minutes of the disability
access and inclusion advisory committee
meeting held on the 27th of November
2023 councelor Martin happy to move as
printed as printed and Council seconder
happy the second councelor Evans thank
you all of those in favour councilors
castelli Del Porto Evans Martin Samuel
King Elmo Alam and sfold carried there
were none
against 8.4 I understand there is an
amended officer
recommendation for the Bayside minutes
of the Bayside arts and gallery advisory
committee meeting on held on the 6th of
October 2023 moved by councelor castelli
and seconded Del councelor Del Porto and
recommendation I'll just say could you
read the changes please sorry could you
read the changes
please um as p
screen do you want me to
read as screen or do I need
to just the part involved please the one
involved I have to read it the lot okay
item 6.3 public art proposals that the
Bays sites art and gallery advisory
comme recommends Council gratefully
accept the donation of she gave me a
daisy by Ann Ross into the public art
collection of the bayite art and
Heritage collection and continues to
display them in The Gardens of
bellaa two approves the acquisition of
the following works by Jane Burton for a
total of
10,400 child of dust three child of dust
four child of dust five three approves
the acquisition of the following works
by Kent Morris for a total of
14,400 cultural Reflections belala
Mansion
rainbow late one cultural Reflections
bellaa Mansion rainbow lat two cultural
reflections bellaa mantion rainbow La
three and I think that thank you
councelor yes and the
second Reserve Reserve all those in
favour councilors castelli Del Porto
Evans Martin Samuel King El moam and
sfold carried there were none
against 8.5 minutes of the
reconciliation action plan Advisory
Group meeting held on the 13th of
December
20223 can I have a
mover Martin thank you and seconded by
councelor Samuel
King Madame mayor I got a question on
this
item I got a question El yes on page
41 under the Community well-being
coordinator highlighted some of the next
steps to be undertaken in the third
quarter which include progress
partnership agreement discussion was
based at city council and bang land
Council can I get some clarification on
what type of partnership agreement and
if it entails any expenditure
please thank you through you mayor so
that's an ongoing discussion with the
banong land Council um regarding
partnership as per the reconciliation
action plan so essentially working
together in partnership with them in
general um part two to this question in
regard to the bonang land Council I
heard some Whispers that it it's
possible that it was placed into
Administration can I get clarification
on this
please celor oh
sorry you madam mayor yeah that's
not something that I'm in a position to
comment on particularly however we are
working with officers from the bong land
Council to continue
conversations through three chair can
probably add to that m is understanding
is that the that organization has
been placed in an Administration but
they are still they are still operating
under Administration and
fulfilling the functions of the land
Council and Basi it as is pursuing
an ongoing
relationship across a range of
matters thank you I'll follow up one so
we are comfortable basically going into
partnership with an organization that's
been placed in
administration through through you chair
my understanding I'm not I don't know
the the precise details of the of of
when the administration will cease but
yes I think we um the buong land Council
discharge as the registered Aboriginal
party discharge a number of um a number
of obligations that we need to engage
with them for including cultural
heritage management approval so we've
got that as a registered Aboriginal
party they are still functioning what
Al be under Administration and we've as
a registered Aboriginal party it's in
council's best best interest to continue
to maintain a productive relationship
with
them thank you another
question sorry another question that's
on page 4 the last question thank you on
this
topic so on page 42 it state that it's
noted that The Advisory Group were not
supportive of any proposal that
membership of the advisory committee
should consist of majority of members
residing with in basad given the
difficulty in recruiting the members of
the committee my question is I thought
that is a standard for all our
committees to be predominantly from bide
are we going to make an exception for
this
committee Miss
B yeah through you U Madame mayor that's
what's recommended in the advisory
committee minutes here at this
point councilor P yeah um Madame this is
news to me um question is to the
CEO I presume we still will be
engaging members of the land Council
to represent original interest in
events and we pay them for it so is
there an issue about
paying members of a land Council
that's actually now bankrupt is that is
it a a a legal issue at all true
chair I think we need to be careful
about the language we're using to be
perfectly honest they're in
administration they're not bankrupt they
they still trade they've had an
administrator appointed to to run their
to assist sorry I
corrected it's there is absolutely no
issue in terms of continuing to to
have relationship with an organization
that's in
administration so what I would say in
relation to the Council around the
terms of referen Council has sought to
standardize its approach to um terms
of reference for its various advisory
committees and as but and as part of
that process the reason very reason
this issue was listed on the was listed
on the agenda for this committee and why
they provided feedback is because
Council asked them to provide feedback
and as I understand it once all of
the Committees have provided feedback
that will come back to council for its
determination as to whether it wants to
proceed with a common set of terms of
reference regardless of the committee or
whether they're prepared to accept some
variations depending on the advice
they're receiving back so you ask from
an opinion and they've given you one
madame man just one more question and
that will be I stand corrected on what I
said but um will we get reports about
the status of the land Council in the
future so that we know where we stand as
a council once the administrators have
done their
work through chair happy to provide and
updates as they come at hand thank
you councilor Martin just a quick
question have we got any Financial
exposure to the L
CC through chair
n thank you all right all those in favour
of the minutes councilors castelli D
aorto Evans Martin Samuel King sfold all
those against councelor eloam the motion
is carried
section nine reports by special
committees there were no reports by
special
committees section 10 reports by the
organization councilors and members of
the gallery there was one written
statement received to items on the
agenda for tonight's meeting in addition
there were eight requests to speak
received in accordance with council's
governance rules we will hear from
registered speakers who will have 2
minutes to make their presentation the
time will be electronically displayed on
the screen above and after your time has
expired you will hear this
sound a reminder also to the speakers to
please contain your presentation to the
subject matter please also ensure your
comments are respectful and refrain from
making any derogatory or defamatory
comments of any counselor member of
council staff or member of the community
should you be in breach of this
requirement your presentation will be
immedi immediately terminated and you
will be asked to return to your seat
should you have any documents or
pictures to be circulated to councilors
as part of your presentation please
indicate when you approach the speaker's
table and the governance manager will
review the documents first and assist in
distributing them to each counselor to
ensure the best audio experience for the
gallery and those following the meeting
online if speakers officers and
councilors could also remember to speak
directly into the
microphones
10.1 Urban Forest Precinct
plans requests to be heard there were
three requests to speak received for
this item could the first
Speaker councilors you will be aware of
an amended officers recommendation for
this item being points four and five
shown on the screen in bold I will read
out the
changes number four rights to all submit
who participated in the community
engagement to thank them for their
contribution number five in response to
the petition received concerning tree
planting in Hyatt identifies priority
sites in
Hy and pennydale suitable for Park and
Street tree plan in the 2024 planting
season and writes to the late petitioner
to advise of the outcome of this
matter there were three requests to
speak received for this item could the
first Speaker Mr Andrew Hawley on behalf
of the higher progress Association
Incorporated please approach the
speaker's
table mayor I'm also the leate
petitioner as well for the for the
petition thank you Mr
Hawley okay you're ready mayor
councilors Executives thank you very
much for the um for the opportunity to
speak tonight I have the privilege of
speaking on behalf of many hundreds of
members of the high progress Association
as well as others who signed the
petition presented you tonight
together we ask the city of Bayside to
make a significant investment in Hy as
part of the urban Forest plan a
significant investment in Street trees
habitat corridors public open space and
Community engagement we're asking you to
prioritize H not just because your own
is confirms our low canopy coverage and
heat Islands we ask because each of the
84 streets in height tells a consistent
story walk down Graham Road and you'll
find a handful of struggling gum trees
where a shady Avenue of grain should be
walk down wolsley street and you'll find
almost no trees at all walk up Worthing
Road and you'll see newly planted trees
that are just inappropriate for their
location in most other streets you'll
find an Eclectic mix of species widely
varying in size and health a large
number ready and waiting for
replacement it's also a matter of record
that Parkland and open space in height
is scarce even when um the play area and
Lawn are delivered at the old CSI site
there will still be hundreds of homes
that are more than a 15-minute walk from
any form of planted open
space our vision is for a suburb whose
Street Scapes evoke the grassy
Woodlands of buong country a network of
habitat corridors leafy accessible
familyfriendly spaces that encourage
households and owners corporations to
Green their own spaces supported by
information and incentives we recognize
it'll cost money but we are at a
critical moment in our history by the
time the csro project is complete High
its population density will be double
that of the population density of the
city of Bayside on average with
significant impacts on quality of life
and traffic congestion in
particular at this time of change and
unprecedented densification we ask that
you do give priority to the to the
residents of Hyatt nothing less than the
future neighborhood character of our
suburb is in your hands thank
you you are there any questions for Mr
Hy yes councelor
Martin yeah thanks very much for coming
down and um good to meet you thanks for
the opportunity um look it's great to
hear from the HPA um and it's a lovely V
Vision that you've just um verbally
explain to all of us I think that's
absolutely fantastic and I think there'
be a fair bit of support for that over
the journey of the prasing plants good
um you mentioned gram Road
um when do you think that the planning
should take place in relation to you
know you've got a lot of development
going there be I'm assuming you don't
expect the trees to go there no
counselor I mean I think we're we're
hoping that um over successive planting
seasons over the next few years um we'll
we'll see a greening up um gri Road's
particularly not notable though I guess
because it's it's Barren and it has been
for
donkeys years so but there are other
stps that are are high are just as high
a priority fantastic thank
you councelor Samuel King thank you very
much for your presentation councelor
Samuel King could you use the microphone
please pardon me thank you very much for
your presentation I'm particularly
interested in your vision for hiat as I
think I heard you say grassy Woodlands
is the banang would have known it can
you just talk to me a little bit more
about that and what that might look like
it's a very good question I don't I
don't wish to monopolize the the the
council's sign but I mean the high
grassy Woodland I think is is emblematic
of the sort of landscape that was that
was EXT and in highight um before
before settlement um but certainly the
trees that do best in our area are the
local U natives the indigenous ones um
they just aren't enough of them and
the ones that are there in some cases
are planted in the wrong place um I I
guess counselor to be a bit cheeky about
it there is probably more spent money
more money spent on power line clearance
than there is on planting decent trees
on what T power line clearance yep thank
you I appreciate
it councelor Castell did you have a
question for Mr H last comment um what
was it again sorry I didn't get it what
is it well counselor I there are a lot
of there there's a practice which is is
inexplicable to to us in the high
progress Association of planting um
trees which have a very tall growth
habit and they're often planted under
power lines and as a consequence the
council spends a lot of money clearing
those power lines rather than yeah I get
that yes thank you very much thank you
there are no further questions Mr got
question to the officers Mr Hwy you
could take your seat thank you councilor
ELO that's a bit of cheeky one but
considering all the issues we we're
having in drain blockages and trees
falling in Brighton is it possible to
move the allocation of the Brighton
trees to the high
area sry chair I suspect we're taking
that as
as a rhetorical
question right thank you do I I will
call Mr Jeff Lee please to
visit it's two pictures no
writing okay
two
thanks thank
you when you're ready please Mr Lee
thank thank you um before you you've got
two pictures it's often said a picture
is worth a th words so I've already
given you 2,000 words one side of the
street is the is the U Street as the
tree as it would be without power lines
the other side is with the power lines
now I came here once before to talk
about this and the fact is um It's Time
trees under power lines were no higher
than the underline the PA under the P
power lines for one simple reason the
cost what's going on here with we've had
them this week in our street it is
enormous there is no logic in putting
the same tree growing at the same height
and then cut in the middle so it's no
longer a natural Tree in any case so
find a diff a better tree secondly I'd
say last time I was here I hadn't picked
up about the issue of vegetation I'm
under I'm aware than a number of places
where Council officers have been pulling
out existing vegetation and putting in
Australian native stuff without an issue
with the existing plants now it seems to
me replace plants when they're dead but
going around wasting money planting
pulling trees out and putting other ones
that often are smaller than the ones
that you've taken out is bordering on I
think being silly in my in my view it's
time Council looked at what they did and
how they put what they put out in our
streets um we have had significant
problems over time with this and I must
say last time when I was here at least
one Council was expressing The View that
we should be undergrounding out
undergrounding our power lines well
frankly it'll never happen in these
streets we are established suburbs so
unlike H where they need to look at it
from a different way I think it's time
some practical politics and some
practical iCal environmental systems
should be put in place rather than
pulling out trees when they are not not
necessary to be pulled out okay it's not
an Australian
tree Mr Lee councilor Martin do you have
a question oh thanks for coming down
Mr L you're probably talking about me um
I just oh am I okay I just wanted to um
ask you whether you're aware that um the
city of Perth undergrounded their entire
network from 200 I think it was 98 to
2010 through a good strategy and just
replacing when they can well um last I
heard the city of Perth is a lot smaller
than the city of Melbourne um and
secondly the only way you're going to be
able to do this is a levy a levy on
residence I noticed that the city of
Mornington is putting a levy on
residence for solar power that means the
rich get rich rich put them in and the
poor pay the pay the pay the the Bounty
so to speak in my view I think the only
way you can do it is putting a levy on
residents and good luck with that thank
you if there are no further questions Mr
Lee you could take your seat thank you
thank you Mr Derek screen on behalf of
pennydale residents Action Group please
take a
seat thank you
Terry
guess he forgot his goggles to wear
tonight
so thank you
J
thank you Mr
screen thank you
Terry um good evening councilors and
officers again I find myself here to
congratulate the Council on the urban
Forest strategy and to specifically
thank the officers for listening to our
concerns taking them into account and
implementing so many of them into the
final documents thank you very much for
your time and effort there is one m
thing that officers discuss within the
document that cannot be addressed and
that is the issue of there being no
protections for existing canopy trees or
vegetation in pennydale following the
changes to the neighborhood character
documents a few years ago for some
reason whilst the rest of Bayside was
protected pennydale and a section of
brightness lost that protection which
makes it easier for developers to
moonscape a property and harder for
Bayside to reach its overall Urban
Forest strategy goals this then needs
urgent attention to rectify both for the
residents of Penny and for Bay bayside's
fight against climate change now this
can be done either by reinstating those
lost protections or by extending the
existing VP from where it currently ends
to include pennydale or both and can
please see the handouts in front of you
I ask the council look at this serious
issue with urgency and rectify this
problem with Hast to protect Penny
residents and the promise of the urban
Forest strategy especially since major
structure works such as the srl will
cause further losses as well as make it
harder to enable new growth in the
future and finally while I'm here to
talk about the issues regarding our
neighborhood of pennydale we are not the
only ones in Bayside needing assistance
under the urban Forest strategy with h
as an entire suburb almost as bad as us
and also Desperately Seeking help from
Council and we fully support our
neighbors to the North in Hyatt and
their petition on tonight's agenda and
ask that Council work with the Hyatt
progress Association and the Hyatt
residents as Council has worked with us
to help them with their issues too which
also includes the Regeneration of the
high grassy Woodland area after all we
are all in this together thank you very
much thank you Mr screen I have
councelor Martin then
councelor counc off offices councelor
Mar you have a question for Mr screen
yeah look thanks very much for coming
down Mr screen and as you you might be
aware that you know sometimes people
question why councils are putting a lot
of money into um putting strategies in
place to ensure our street canopy um is
maintained if not expanded um could you
just let us know what would happen if if
if this kind of work hadn't been
undertaken for your
community well I can only really talk
about pennydale and Penny Dale was
losing trees hand over fist um both from
natural nutrition and from developers
specifically from
developers um the rate that Council was
able to replace those trees was not able
to replace them in the same rate that we
were losing them without the urban
Forest strategy in place we'd be going
down the hill even greater speed thank
you any other further questions for
Mr screen
just M councelor Evans just a um just a
note Mr screen that I see that um
included in the officers recommendation
about priority planting in the 20124 so
you'd be happy with that alteration
absolutely 2024 is a great start we work
it from there thank you both and
absolutely thank you councelor Samuel
King just one question the high progress
Association brought up that vision of
the grassy Woodlands as a vision
vision for height and pennydale
particularly looking at the height
grassy Woodlands is an example of what
we might want to extend is that
something that you would support um I
would support that and not to the same
degree as h of course they're looking at
it from the perspective of they have
that in place already and it should be
expanded every area is already different
in the way that it's been planted and
grown up so just simply adding something
extra to the pot and thinking that's a
good idea may not work The Greening
is the important thing and Greening
quickly is the important thing thank
you thank you Mr screen there are no
further questions councelor delto you
had a question for the officers thank
you Madame mayor just miss colon I think
if it is the case that there are areas
in Brighton Eastern p panel that have no
current protection for canopy trees in
their character statements um first of
all if it is the case and if it is can
we have them reinstated
Mr Crips I'm sorry Mr three you madam
mayor um the municipality is covered by
a range of different vegetation
controls we have a local law that
extends across the entire municipality
including the penale um area um which
requires a local law permit to be
obtained um if you wish to remove a tree
of a certain size and in the southern
part of the municipality we have
vegetation protection overlays that that
exist within the the bide planning
scheme um in relation to the um
commentary around
controls and neighborhood character
Provisions there is a neighborhood
character provision that exists over
pennydale however a planning scheme
amendment that was put forward as part
of um structure planning for penale was
refused and not supported by the state
government and that may be what Mr
screen is referring to in particular um
but controls do exist sorry through you
and I was referring to the Mr Mr screen
you could take a seat thank you I just
referring to the bright and East area as
well which I
represent sorry sorry through you madam
May um those controls um which I refer
to in relation to local law do cover
um the
area got I'd like to
move sorry one moment councelor Samuel
King we have a question from question
to the offic yeah assuming we start
introducing vegetation protection
overlays and vprs throughout the whole
municipality that's question to Mr Crips
as a director of planning would that
impact the availability of land to
increase residential stock
through Madame mayor um Council has
adopted its Urban Forest strategy which
already um seeks to look at um expanding
the vegetation controls across the
entire municipality in relation to
those Provisions it would not
necessarily change the amount of land
that we have available for um potential
housing but it could restrict the amount
of usable land where trees are
required to be protected um or buildings
are required to be designed around trees
which are identified as being OB sign
ific right do I have a move with
councelor Samuel King I'd like to move
the amended officers
recommendation thank you do I have a
seconder got a second thank you
councelor
Evans so I will debate firstly
congratulations I think to all officers
for an
absolutely awesome Urban Forest strategy
something that's come I think it's years
of work now
um I'm very glad to include um Hyatt
being a priority site and I I also want
to say that even though I originally
wanted to be an advocate of tables um
and targets um to really give clear
direction of the kind of character we
wanted to
see I wanted to hear what the community
thought about that and what I found was
that they actually weren't in support of
targets that they were really really
happy with the what the officers had put
together the Nuance the keeping the
urban character the habitat The
Greening um but they didn't want targets
they wanted the officers to have the
flexibility to make the right decision
for the right place at the right time
and for me one beautiful example of that
was the Hyatt progress association's
vision for Hyatt to reflect the high
grassy Woodlands to be able to plant
plants that are right for the site that
are right for the community that is
supported by the community and provide
habitat my concern
is as was my initial intent to you know
if we have targets that we could
actually get that all wrong and I'm just
looking at you know one possible table
that I that I actually voted for a few
months ago
pending Community consultation hi I
think we had 30% indigenous 60% exotic
and I'm thinking well we're not going to
be able to plant the right trees at the
right sight wanted that are wanted by
the community we're actually not going
to be able to fulfill the H progress
association's Vision we're not going to
be able to plant the right trees in the
right spot and it's actually not what
the community wants we go out for
Community consultation for a reason it's
a bit of Common Sense checking okay us
seven we have some great ideas we think
this we think that okay what do you guys
think and the answer we got back was
actually only
27% of participants supported targets
the rest didn't they were pretty low
form about them and if they were going
to go with targets they were not looking
like the targets that we were thinking
of so I think actually I'm you know I
really want indigenous species but but
hold on hold on we we've put out the
urban Forest strategy we've asked people
what they want they love it their one
problem is the targets okay back off
let's not do the targets the other thing
that the community says is actually H's
got a real issue Penny's got a real
issue let's prioritize them so we went
out the community we listened and
actually I think the officers
recommendation has got it right so
that's where I want to stand that's
where I'm hoping we might land I think
it would be a fantastic thing tonight to
come to a consensus behind the community
listening to the community feedback and
going with the officers
recommendation thank you councelor
Samuel King councelor Evans thank you
Madame mayor just a couple of points
yes I support the urban Forest preing
plans as they've been submitted to
us delighted that they include both
High and Penny um and we've heard from
Mr screen um from Penny again being
the ward counselor for Penny it does
delight me that the tree tree planting
will occur in
2024 however let me also say um I have a
great interest in Hyatt and the Hy
grassy woodlands and again the
journey that that has been on for a long
long time it is a delight to be able to
go up there the other day with the seven
councilors or a number of councilors
and know that this will be handed over
to the people of Hyatt and Council
castelli should be very proud of um that
and also being able to be the ward
counselor for H and be able to say that
they're delivering something in that
order to H it is a magnificent thing
three acres of three hectares of
grassy Woodlands that people should be
able to enjoy with the beautiful trees
that they nominated um from a number
of the the volunteers there that took
us around so again I think it's a really
great ending um after a long long
journey um to have the the four hect the
four hectares one three from the grassy
woodlands and one active one in the
CS site um delivered to the city of
Bayside and I'm really grateful for
it thank you councelor Evans councelor
Del
Porto thank you Madame mayor I um I'm
very happy to hear that penale and Hy
are getting finally their tree
planted that they so much need but I'm
I'm concerned about the fact that we're
removing the U the suggested species
targets um my view is that the
community engagement was interesting I'm
not sure that we could use it as you
know completely to guide us for future
PL tree species planting because
they were recommending u a target of
10 15 20% of exotic trees in bright and
the Brighton East which I know is
completely inconsistent with the
existing u u canopy that we have now so
I mean my view is that people have have
met met well and they voted on not only
their own area but they also were
allowed to vote on other parts of bayite
as they you about as their vision for
the future which is fine but it does not
allow for the fact that the existing
current canopy which is much loved in
areas like Brighton and bright East
which is mostly exotic European trees is
not respected so and I know that officer
will say don't worry we'll be okay
but I still would like to see us make
sure that we do have the target speeds
included so I I would foreshadow the
motion that goes through the target
species as well as what is includes the
P High points made by councilor
castelli about planting programs in hide
and pennyel given the comparity lck of
vegetation to be pushed forward my
view is that U I think it would be a
better motion if we we spell out what
we're looking for in areas like
Brighton and bright East which have
mostly European trees some good saying
the vision for the future will be that
only 10% of trees should be should be
European trees when right now I'm
surrounded by Oaks Elms
Beach and plane trees which I know have
got their own issues but they do provide
a wonderful canopy so my view is that we
should stick to the Target species it
doesn't look like I got the numbers
tonight but I I will foreshadow the
motion just in case which will include
councelor Castell and councelor evans's
issue about pennydale and Hyatt um so
be it thank you thank you councelor Del
Porto do I have any other councilors
wishing to speak all those in favour
Council Mar I
Clos yeah thank you Madam now look
this this has really come at a very um
good time
because although we think it's um all
Happy Days Danny B Morris it's not there
is actually significant tree cany and
vegetation loss occurring down in B
Morris as the report and the precinct
plane says on page 12 um and this is
mainly due to increasing site coverage
of buildings and infrastructure on our
development sites including single
dwellings and when a single dwelling
goes in it doesn't come before Council
it is a um it's committed under the
FasTrack system and it allows um um
owners to
essentially remove so much canopy it's
not funny and there are good debates
going on in in the community now on
whether it makes you happy to have five
bedrooms and four bathrooms and a pool
and an underground car park or it makes
you happy to be able to go out into a
part of your own property your own land
and enjoy the open space with with
canopy trees and understo and other
things
the other part to that obviously is um
the heat islands that have been affected
by that now in my um Precinct the only
heat island identified in the precinct
plan is up near the corner of um my
fellow counselor Evans on chman road and
weather road and when you walk through
those streets there isn't a lot of um
trees and you can feel it getting warmer
and as you walk further down towards um
the heart of B Morris it gets cooler 7%
of council land um managed trees are
anticipated to reach the end of life
over the next 10 years and I can assure
you that's a lot of trees and the
precinct plan addresses that mountain
and it is a big mountain to try and
overcome 7% of loss over the next 10
years the state government's imagery
program um which is a loss and Game
feature over 2015 to 2019 showed that
private land contributed to 53% of gain
but it unfortunately also showed 65% in
loss which is a 12% deficit on the
private
land um I suppose the good news is that
the studies have done a lot of
consultation as councelor Joe Samuel
King has just said and what's been
identified is that there has been a
greater interest from the younger
population to ensure Bayside increases
its vegetation cover and that is because
they're going through schools that are
educating them on the need to have trees
to save us all and that is a very
welcome thing I'd just like to finish by
saying that um if if people wanted to
get into the detail of the precin plan
on page 46 it does talk about that in
Phase One action the council will
facilitate the negotiations between the
residents and Rel and authorities to
support the undergrounding of power
lines and other services if there is
sufficient interest in a street what we
were trying to do before that um fateful
night where it was voted down while I
wasn't here it wasn't to put levies on
the residents and it wasn't to put um a
a a stick over them saying you got to do
it it was to create a policy for the
council that if residents did want to
Underground their um power lines which
is the case in a number of streets in B
Morris the council was ready for action
and they had the policy and the program
the forms and the way to do it that's
what we were trying to do thank
you councelor Martin councelor El moam
and then councelor
castelli yeah Madame mayor I wasn't
going to say much but now I've heard
that the undergrounding wasn't going
to basically force people to pay Levy
which is actually correct I recall
clearly if enough people in the street
not everyone wanted undergrounding we
were going to force people to pay a levy
and I seek some numbers and it turned
out to be if you have an old house will
underground only to your nature strip
and then you need to do it to your house
and if your switchboard was old you also
need to upgrade the switchboard which
equ it to nearly $50,000 per property we
were going to force people to pay for
undergrounding I heard city of first in
a city of course yes the cables were
undergrounded but that was paid by the
utility company not the right payers now
on the urban Forest I got a slightly
different perspective on this one
specifically after the last couple weeks
when we had a bit of rain in um in
Bayside and down in Brighton I received
a few phone calls mostly of blocked
drains and flooded basements and when
we started looking deeper and the
residents doing their bringing their own
plummet it turned out to be that some
trees are blocking the drains and also
some of the footpaths or the debris and
the tree leaves are blocking the drain
pits so therefore the water is actually
not going down the drains because they
are blocked but going into the
properties now yes I do support Penny
and H they can get as many trees as they
want but in an area where we do have
substantial tree coverage where trees
are falling such as example on the
corner of sinkle the streight and no
throat they are falling on people cars
potentially causing you know damage to
property and you know unfortunately
lucky no one was hurt by that
incident but the reality is we cannot
just paint the whole Bas side in the
same brush some areas need the extra
trees which I fully support but some
areas they don't now looking into the
consultation we received the 12 written
submissions 12 written sub Subs but only
from Seven submitters which tell me some
submitters are providing more than one
submission so this whole consultation is
actually get screwed by a number of
people who are really keen on providing
extra tree coverage now I haven't seen
in action that we are doing more
maintenance you know we're planting an
extra 2,000 trees a year extra four five
6 years from now all these trees would
need maintenance the tree routs would be
uplifting foot paaths the tree leaves
need to be swept and this is going to be
major impact on our
budget I am going to probably flow
against the tide here I cannot really
support increasing that tree canopy
we just me heard from the director here
restricting usable
land just to say you know we want to
help the climate because of the climate
change because basements are flooding
where I see basements are getting
flooded because the drains are M Clean
and the trade routs are growing through
that thank you thank you councelor Elam
councelor
castelli thank you um I'm Madame May I'm
supporting Council Doo's foreshadowed
Amendment if that's okay um of course um
the motion that I have as
well now just just to thank you to all
the speakers you got some really great
points and happy to see you um and I've
spoken to the HPA and I've had a lovely
um conversation and and great and got
some really wonderful um
information and I put a question forward
and I said what trees would you
like and the answer was the any tree
that looks good and it's appropriate for
that area so that's great so if you look
on page only well my option in
particular for
H um it was um Council deporter and I
and I
think um a couple of us were very
happy
for that um
option where Hiatt is 30%
indigenous 10% native and I said 60%
exotic I love big canopis trees Hyatt is
in need of that and Oaks and jacarandas
are just beautiful
trees um there's some other gorgeous
trees I do like indigenous trees
appropriate to the area and that may be
Woodlands I've actually walked in the
Woodland Park with I think there was a
few of us there and it was an enjoyable
morning and there is a lot of work there
definitely a lot of work to to you know
to put forward there's a lot of work but
that will
eventuate
absolutely the concept of
underlining of undergrounding lines
beautiful I love that concept I wish we
could have
it but as councelor Mahal has mentioned
there's a cost to that there is a huge
cost otherwise I'd be going yeah let's
do it way yeah no problem the only thing
is we've got a lot of vulnerable people
here in Bayside you will not be able to
afford
that there are people that can let them
do it that's all fine there's there is
no reason for them not
to now I've heard some really great
conversation good speeches here and some
of the
highlighted um in the report of in
the hba's
report there will be an expected
population growth in Hyatt pointing out
that the area will soon accommodate a
significantly higher number of residents
with more people living and working in
the area and their rights to demand
green spaces and a heal and a healthy
Urban environment I am happy that we are
prioritizing High and Penny they feel
they're very neglected so we're doing
this we're doing the right thing and
I'll support that but um not
um the motion that is um in printing
thank you councelor castelli councelor
Samuel King do you wish to quose yes
before I do just a question to
officers the prioritizing of H could
that include
trees in the high grassy Woodlands
yes through two we're currently
developing the remediation plan and the
master plan for the high grassy Woodland
so we'll be obviously dependent on you
know progress but as part of that abut
yes great thank you firstly to the
goodness of
trees like all of us we all have our
faults people have their fault
HS and yet we are all good and to to
think that it could be controversial to
plant a tree as councelor Elmo Elum
suggests it just blows my mind at this
point yes we can all block things humans
can do that too but trees are
fundamentally good and vital for our
health and well-being as well as our
planet and let's go back to actually
what we're doing here with the urban
Forest strategy we are supporting a
massive tree planting Pro program
that really has very ambitious
targets to increase our our Urban Forest
up to I think it was 30% so well done
because the council officers have taken
an aspiration and worked out a way that
we can do this and that is fundamentally
good in relation to targets as I said
yes I was in favour of them originally
but not now I read the community support
Community the absence of community
support for for targets and also the big
disconnect between what the community is
wanting such as the high grassy
Woodlands on large say in high and what
the targets might allow I just don't
believe the targets as we propose them
will allow us to do the best by this
Urban Forest strategy so I'm very happy
to go with the officer's recommendations
and also to undergrounding of power
lines I'm totally supportive of a policy
I think it's a fabulous idea I look
forward to seeing it come back to us
thank you thank you councelor Samuel
King all those in favour councilors Evans
Martin El Samuel King I'm sorry I keep
calling you L Samuel King and sfold
carried all those oh sorry all those
against councelor castelli councelor Del
Del Porto councelor El moan three
against
carried M May Madame mayor just a
question of the um of the CEO um would
this be the fastest response to a
petition that has come to Bayside Mr
CE chair I'm I'm not keeping it tally
but it's a fairly quick response you'd
have to
say 10.2 Hampton Hub concept design and
feasibility analysis requests to be
heard there was one written statement
received for this item from Mrs Marie
Louise check on behalf of the Hampton
Community Center in addition there were
three requests to speak received could
the first Speaker Mrs Sarah Haynes on
behalf of Hampton Street Traders
Association please approach the
speaker's
table
thank you thank you Mrs Haynes whenever
you're
ready good evening everyone um my name
is Sarah and I'm the president of the
Hampton Street Traders Association I
represent the 330 odd businesses that
operate on Hampton Street and in the
immediate
surrounds it's a priority for us traders
to bring people to Hampton and keep them
in Hampton and at the moment We are
failing in this there is urgent need to
focus on both infrastructure and the
beautification of Hampton to attract and
retain both customers and Traders and we
believe that the Hampton Hub is key to
solving this issue there are many new
traders in the area and we are becoming
increasingly frustrated with the neglect
of Hampton there is an epic amount of
development happening in Hampton at the
moment and while it might seem of
benefit to us traders that there's going
to be a whole lot of new customers it
does not seem to be matched with
development of local with local
infrastructure my customers cannot park
they cannot bank they cannot visit
Australia Post and they can't go to a
full supermarket in the area so the hsta
reformed with a renewed passion and
focus and again that's to bring people
to Hampton and keep them in
Hampton the proposed Hampton Hub will
bring a focus to Hampton that we
desperately need we want a beautiful
community and green space to attract
people to Hampton the Hampton Hub
acknowledges the need for this space and
the beautification of Hampton it
considers parking shortfalls and it
answers the desperate need for better
and more Consolidated public facilities
and amenities in the area we have one
public toilet on Thomas Street that
hasn't had an operational door in the
years since I've been there we need this
uplift in Hampton Street to both keep
people from Hampton in Hampton but also
to attract and retain
Traders the Hampton Hub is an amazing
opportunity for both local for local
council local Traders and local
residents to make this amazing block of
land what we want it to be and it would
be an absolute tragedy to see this land
bought by the highest bidder so the hsta
support the Hampton Hub project and
support better community and green space
in this area thank
you thank you Mrs H councelor Evan
Martin do you have a question
please thanks very much for coming
down um and being the president and
being a
active Community Association and it's
good to see the Hampton Traders back I
haven't seen them for a few years thank
you um you mentioned
parking um so I'm assuming um you would
not like to see any reduction in parking
um with land CES or anything like that
no to to to sort of fund a a modified
hub no no we desperately need parking in
the area it's one of our struggles
absolutely as both a Trader and
customers thank
you councilor Elma followup question
regarding the parking so I assume you
want to be in support of council closing
streets to make them open space and
remove parking from these streets let's
say small Street for example
sorry do you mind do you mind asking
that question once more counselor yeah
if you would do you what's your thoughts
on Council a closing a street to create
an open space and getting rid of that
parking on that
street that's a really good
question you do have the right to
reserve if you if you
wish um no I think I will just go back
to the statement that we do need parking
in Hampton um around the trading areas
that's of importance to us
yes thank
you hello Samuel
King I just wanted to say hello and it's
great to meet you even in a public space
and I look forward to a long and
productive relationship and welcome
thank you thank you thank you Mrs Hayes
there are no further questions if you'd
like to take a seat and we'll invite our
second speaker Mr Simon Gibson oam on
behalf of the Hampton neighborhood
association thank
you when you're ready mayor councellors
on behalf of the Hampton neighborhood
association I wish to express our deep
disappointment at the outcomes of this
report and the assumptions on which it
is built and to urge councilors not to
accept it primary recommendation that
progress on the Hampton Hub be deferred
indefinitely the Hampton Hub has long
been on council's agenda and hna has
been a consistent and ENT advocate for
its
development we understand that in 2018
$30 million was allocated by Council in
its long-term financial plan for the Hub
and hna has recently only recently been
informed that this money was
subsequently reallocated to other
projects that were given higher
priority nevertheless in mid
2023 hna with the knowledge and support
of councilors canvased its membership
and developed a preferred option for the
Hub which was presented to Council in
December the option was predicated on a
recognition that some Council assets
would need to be sold but stressed the
critical importance of retaining the car
park at 20 to 22 Willis Street and the
Scout Hall at 6A Willis Street is
indispensable to the
development it should be emphasized that
hna's option received positive support
from 85% of the membership who responded
and from the community center the
developer of the Hampton quarter and the
state member for Brighton we are
concerned that the recommendation
further delays the Hampton Hub by at
least 6 to 10 years and this means that
the project may not be completed if at
all until more than 20 years after it
was first moted in the 2013
UDF once again Hampton has been
neglected we continue to experience all
the impacts of development but no return
investment in enhancement of local
amenity and
infrastructure the report is a
disheartening rejection of the express
needs of Hampton residents we again
request the councilors not
accept the
recommendation councilor Martin you have
a
question thanks thanks very much for
coming down Mr Gibson and all of the um
advocacy you do with your thank you
councelor your group um you mentioned
that you provided your members with an
option yes um did you provide your
members with other options or was it a
single option this was an option that
was drawn from consultation and
discussion with the committee and with
members and residents of Hampton
bearing in mind we have 657 members of
hna who had an opportunity to be part of
the consultation process but it was just
just to confirm it was only one option
it was one option yes could I could I
ask
another in in that option did you
provide your members your
650 members with a consideration and
consequences of all that option in in
respective costs there was an indic
indicative cost of around about $28
million in that
project thank you counc
m just one last question and you've seen
the reports yeah absolutely and and now
that option is out at $57
million would your residents have any
other views about other options our
residents well certainly members of our
committee and the people with whom we've
consulted who are in the Construction
and building industry would question the
Quantum of the options that are provided
um although we haven't got the detail
we would wish to see the detail to
subject it to further scrutiny and to
seek our own counsel and advice on that
but an indicator for that is the cost of
car Parks um and the fact that deck car
parking appears to come in more
expensively than underground car parking
which I find unusual even though I'm not
in the construction industry before you
ask me um but given the the nature of
the soil of that car park the fact that
it's slurry underneath with a high water
table we do have questions around that
and we'd certainly like to see the full
report thank you questions for officers
one moment are there any other
questions for Mr Gibson no thank you Mr
Gibson councel Sam k um just to recap
thank you Mr Gibson um just to ask how
long has the hna been lobbying in this
space how many years are we at 10 years
10 years thank thank
you that's all and I do have a question
just of officers in relation to are
there any other questions for Gibson
yeah I got a question thank you coun
first of all Mr Gibson thank you for
your presentation my question is how do
you think your membership would have
reacted if there was an option to
combine the wwor site to the carar on
2021 to all that triangular site remove
all the trees
put a basement car park underneath
everything and put a monster of a
building on top how do you think the
community would take that I I'm not sure
that the community would actually
appreciate
it councilor Elma wellam that is
speculation I think um if there are no
further
questions thank you I think point
of a point of order Madam man um I I
think that
question
um needs to be withdrawn in many
respects it I I I'm not I'm not I'm not
obliged to talk about commercial
entities
and thank you councilor Martin for your
opinion but we've we've already ruled
that it's speculative and we'll be
moving on so Mr Gibson if you'd like to
take your seat please councelor Samuel
King you have a question for the
officers yeah I did particularly about
um where that 30 million in the
long-term financial plan has gone what
happened and was there actually a
council decision in relation to that 30
million I'm happy happy to respond to
that
so so I think we need to be careful
about the language with this
conversation as well so um this project
has never been included in council's
budg
it has never been included in the 4-year
Capital Works program which is the
adopted Council budget position each
year it's never been an allocation in
those documents and therefore has not
been a funded project at any time over
the last 10
years it the long-term financial plan is
a different document it's a it's a
obviously much longer term it's its
role is to consider potential
projects potential challenges that are
coming at Council from a financial
perspective a fair way out into the
future and as part of prudent planning
in the past Council has identified
potential projects there's no commitment
to them but potential projects knowing
that they exist in the in the system
that need to be considered as part of
making shorter term decisions as part of
the budget and foryear capital program
there was an indicative allowance in the
long-term financial plan at one point
since that
time the cost of construction and
this is not a bide phenomenon is that's
a across all sectors the cost of
construction has increased between 20
and 30% at a minimum across all all
sorts of projects in our program and
Council has also made a series of
decisions to increase the scope of a
number of projects and to include new
projects in this Capital program what
that has meant
is that um in in redeveloping the
long-term financial plan we have to
acknowledge that there is no spare
capacity that was originally envisaged
in the long-term financial plan anymore
so where we stand today is that work got
projects that were in the Council budget
adopted that won't be
delivered there are projects in the
four-year Capital program that will have
to be pushed out because of the cost
increases across the whole $210 million
or thereabouts of capital projects so
we've had to reshape the program because
of the pressures on the budget and um I
would go back to saying that the money
hasn't the money was never allocated
formally as part of council's budget
process for this project money hasn't
gone anywhere was never there in the
first
place councelor Martin you have a
question question for
officers yeah I was just trying to keep
it to the the the last
speaker um who talked about um car
parking the first question I've got is
has the council ever undertaken building
a multi-deck car
park through youer I don't believe
so thank you and the other question that
that came up um during that conversation
was this $30
million notional
notional um and we've just heard the CEO
say other projects come up what other
projects would have taken up $30
million true chair there were some new
projects included in the program but the
vast bulk of the cost pressures that are
facing Council now relate to the fact
that the construction costs have
increased by 20 to
30% so we got a if we got a 200 we
started with a $210 million Capital
program over a 4year period 20% of that
is a hell of a lot of money and that is
the major contributing factor to the
reshaping of council's financial
position that's the major factor um but
it is fair to say that there are a
number of small projects that weren't in
the program that now are and there are a
number of projects where the the
scope has changed over time so it's a
combination of factors but the
overwhelming pressure that we're feeling
in the capital program relates to the
increases in construction
costs thank you Mr Evan Paco if you
would like to come to the speak just
another excuse me um Madam May if I may
just another one that comes to mind um
Mr CEO is the increase in prices from
two considerable projects where the
Builder has gone um into into
liquidation so that's another factor
that really must come into where the
money goes that's true chair as I said
there's a number of contributing factors
but the simple mathematics of the
situation are such that in the current
construction environment which is um the
the last round of tenders we went
through had price increases somewhere
between 20 and 60% on those projects now
you do the multiplication of that those
sorts of increases across the $210
million program and you immediately find
yourself in a situation where you've got
tens of millions of dollars of problem
that need to be addressed through
rephasing the capital program and
dropping some projects
out thank you Mr Evan
Packer good evening and thank you
councilors um my name's Evan Packer I'm
a lifelong Hampton resident a Hampton
business owner and I've worked in and
managed or overseen various businesses
in Hampton Street for nearly 50
years um I've seen many Hampton Street
Master plans development plans Hub
proposals come and go since about 1980
and in the past 50 OD years not a lot
has changed in the Hampton Street
shopping Precinct a couple of blocks of
land were purchased for car Parks the
bus interchange was relocated new
public toilets were built various art
inst installations installed and
removed the library maternal health
Center Senior Citizen Center and
Community Hall are still in the same
locations not a lot has been done to
take those services to the 21st century
model Hampton Street doesn't have a full
range Supermarket locals are still
driving to moravan H or Brighton to do
weekly shopping it can't be achieved in
Hampton this takes people and money out
of the Hampton shopping Precinct to be
spent elsewhere this brings me to the
Hampton Hub when the Hub was first
floated funds theoretically allocated it
was exciting time for Hampton as we were
finally going to have a community
complex which would be new new and true
Center of Hampton with all major
facilities plus public transport plus
the supermarket plus fresh food shopping
all really within a few 100 meters of
each other it is very unfortunate the
council officers are recommending
Council to further Hub project it
appears to me that this a cost-driven
decision not a community-driven decision
this is evident in the council office's
report stating that there are concerns
about raising expectations through
Community consultation the Hampton Hub
must remain as a necessary addition to
council plan so that services are
enhanced and expanded to match our
growing Community which is coming
through our development plans right now
there's a great opportunity with the
council land bank and the retail
development land bank that's currently
for sale to achieve a once- in
a-lifetime development of the area for
the M of Hampton residents Traders and
Community groups to have an amazing
Precinct the best outcome for the
community is for the private land bank
to be included in some way with the
council's Hub plans to ensure 100
parking spaces built at no additional
cost to council and therefore removing
one of the major cost concerns in the
council office's report I as do many
hamptonian would like councilors to vote
to continue with the Hampton Hub
concept thanks for your
time councilor Martin you have a
question for Mr Packer thanks for
continuing continuing from 1980 Mr
Packer it's scary I'm pretty sure
there's citizen awards for people like
you but um you mentioned continue with
the council landbank and and then
another bank another land the private
land bank essentially there's two land
Banks there's
two can I just ask a question here so
there there's you mention so there's the
council land bank and then there's the
private land bank yep and um you you
mentioned let's keep going and seeing
how we go with it could you expand on
that the Hub to continue needs
funding some of that funding is going to
come from the sale of existing Council
assets which has been floated over the
years the but there's also the the the
car park that's sitting in the Willis
Street precin not the the back car park
back of the Community Hall in that
square block of hle Street which is
where the land bank is so you know you
got about $35 $40 million worth of land
sitting there it's on the market at the
moment um as a entity if that goes or it
get subdivided it changes things
dramatically for the local community CU
they may not get the development that
they deserve in Hampton and somehow that
private land bank with private owners
and developers has to somehow mesh in
with what the council is planning with
the Hub so some funds come towards the
council to help with the financials
because once a private developers
involved they're going to build the
additional park car parking for the
council takes a bit of a stress away as
the council offic has reported the cost
of those car parking
spaces Martin I'd like to ask one more
question you um came before us today as
a businessman yep with Decades of
experience in this area and you've just
mentioned to us that there's properties
on the market on next door to hours and
things like that um I guess what what
I'm hearing is you're floating or or
even expecting that Council would work
work with those possibly to produce
funds to kind of like get this thing
done is is that what I'm hearing well
look I'm not sure it's a partnership
could be conversation it's just
somehow that as I've mentioned and I've
mentioned numerous times Hampton is
underserviced for food retail like it or
not we are underserviced people leave
Hampton as they have been for 30 40 50
years to go to other shopping
precincts there's a massive Land Bank
there that's ideal for a supermarket
which means ideal for additional car
parking that doesn't have to be the
council development of course and it
wouldn't be the council development it's
a private operator who is going to do
something that's going to assist the
Council which is car parking and then
Council still got Acres of space to do a
hub in the future thank you I I'll just
ask one more question if I may one more
question last question thank you Council
Martin were you involved with the
community consultation with a chat by
the name of Patrick who who engaged the
council regarding what has eloquently be
called the cruise
ship um through the hna and through
private submissions and things like that
and attending the and was that a similar
kind of opportunity with the council to
work with a a developer to to to get
something done in that I recall what
isn't this speculation as well that you
ruled over before Madame mayor different
completely different completely
different I believe
thank you coun said it was a speculative
question cre um if there are no question
further questions Mr Evans I got a
question to Mr
Evans Mr Evans first thank you for
coming here and presenting my question
is Mr Packer sorry sorry question
regarding the land banking you're
talking about there is a couple blocks
of land there there is a 20 to 22 which
is the existing car parket great then
you got the 14 to 18 and 12 which we
currently have buildings and then there
is the 1 a which include the car park
behind these buildings in your mind
you're talking about a land banking of
all these slots combined or well the the
the land bank I'm sorry in terms of the
private land bank or the council Land
Bank the private land bank the private
land bank is essentially the supermarket
half a dozen properties um in a row and
potentially one or two others within
that so which is sizable piece of
land L-shaped piece of land so that's
owned by one group at the moment they've
put that on the market it's out for
expressions of interest at the moment
because I believe they've had some
challenges with Council and have moved
on maybe they didn't manage their
package well with what they've got there
and what they want to do and they've
obviously moving oner once again there's
um a little bit of speculation so I'll
have to ask you to um please resume your
seat the um Community or the audience
and do I have a mover please I have an
alternate recommendation may I have it
on the screen to be read
out that Council number one notes the
report to notes that currently as of
today the funding for the earliest
possible start for the project will will
be 2030 unless external funding is
obtained three supports in principal
scenario B is the preferred model for
the Hampton
Hub four reinforces its vision for the
Hampton Hub to deliver a pedestrian
friendly Precinct where it minimizes
vehicle movement and ideally
removes I think plural all heavy traffic
including large trucks and
buses point five considers the funding
and timing of the Hampton Hub project as
part of the long-term financial plan but
notes that this will require asset
rationalization in Brackets including
sale lease or alternate
arrangements and reports back to Council
on the proposed options at or before the
April 2024 council meeting
six undertakes the appropriate advocacy
to both state and federal governments or
other appropriate funding bodies or
Partners to seek possible sources of
external funding to support or deliver
the Hampton Hub
project and point seven requires
officers to undertake alternative works
or arrangements to support the delivery
of the community services and the open
space in Hampton in 20
2425 which is aligned with the
principles of social inclusion
accessibility and Community connections
as fundamental considerations where it
is contained within existing
budgets I'll second that um this work
should also take into consideration all
of council's existing strategies
including but not limited to long-term
financial plan integr ated transport
strategy
2018 Bayside walking strategy Bayside
parking Strate strategy Open Space
strategy Urban Forest strategy Hampton
Urban Forest strategy Precinct plan bide
arts and culture and librar strategies
and the economic development strategy
and the Hampton public landm plan and
thank you councelor Del Porto I hope
you're agreeing to Second all of that
including the strategies thank
you thank you councelor delorto for
seconding the motion councelor Samuel
King do you wish to speak debate
yes Hampton Hub is at the heart of
Bayside not only geographically but in
what we are aiming to
achieve it is all about community
services and
supporting the delivery of good
community service Services Library
support for the dis
advantaged maternal and child health
services but also providing quality open
space to a developing major activity
center it has been Council policy to
support this project throughout this
term and one of my core goals during
this term was to progress this project
to a point that would land on something
that we were all happy with something
that made sense from an urban planning
perspective that was supported by the
urban planners that was supported by the
experts that was supported by the
Architects and most importantly
supported by the community and what
better Community Representatives than an
incorporated organization with more than
600 members that's been advocating for
over 10 years and still here still
smiling still believing that we can do
this this as well as the Traders
Association and the state member and
that's what option b represents it makes
sense it's a beautiful option where we
keep our car parking we have the
community center where it should
be right in the heart of Hampton and
quality open space to the
north now money is a major obstacle here
and I think that's where a lot of the
Pains come from and the CEOs explained
eloquently exactly why we find ourselves
in this situation so we must look to
external funding it will be needed and
we've done it before we managed to get
16 million from the federal government
very recently in
Bayside we did that for the yellow cut
Willam nature reserve for a number of
reasons we had a clear project that made
sense that was inviting that was well
supported by the community we knew
exactly what we wanted to do and we were
able to put that on the table as
something that the federal government
could be part of and
celebrate without being clear about what
we want to do there's no way in hell
we're going to get external funding from
anyone we can't be a drift with this
this is a long-term project it will
require external Partners all we need to
do is decide what we want and that's
what we're doing tonight in principal
support for scenario B which is the
preferred model by the experts and our
local community Incorporated
associations both the Hampton
neighborhood association and the Hampton
Traders
Association it's a great project and we
can pull it off and in the meantime with
the last par paragraph and I thank
councelor sfold for it that's a a way of
saying we're going to be able to do some
and give some hamptom some love in the
meantime while we're trying to um work
out how to fund what is a long-term and
extraordinary project for the future of
Hampton thank
you thank you councelor Samuel King
councelor Del Porto thank you Madame
mayor Madame may I think that um I
support the motion I think what we need
to do is understand that make it clear
to the community that and I thank the
CEO about tonight's clarification of the
funding and the costing of things um
clearly we don't have the
5256 million that you would need to
build the project the next 2 or 3 years
but if we do have an increase of 30%
on $220 million over four years that's
about 6 $66 million increase that we
made to find to be able to cope
with we have to find the money for that
um Madam may I think that U we need to
understand that there's there's ways to
obtain funding I mean as as Council
exell King said the example of the alate
will El with Park comes to comes to mind
we have received I think it's more
like $16 million from Mostly federal
government the state hasn't provided us
with a cracker yet we actually received
I think
250,000 C the port Philip which is good
because they you know the their
residents use our Park nearly as much if
not more than our own residents down
there look I think that we want to
show that we are progressing the matter
we are we want to make it clear that
we're not hiding anything and I think
tonight's CEO explanation I think
goes to the goes to a lot of it U but my
view is that the mayor of the day
whoever you you this year but whoever's
mayor over the next five or six years
should really strongly Advocate on
behalf of the community to get some
funding from both federal and state
governments I know that we are
blessed with a lot of Elections and
the federal elections come every 3 years
and I know we went through one that
in
2022 my view is that we should
really continue to Advocate and hope to
get some funding to help us Quicken the
process I mean if we can get some some
real funding over the next three or four
years maybe it doesn't have to be six or
seven years from now it might be
actually you know less than that if we
can get some real funding from the
from the state and federal government I
mean we're surrounded by Council that
seem to be able to
an almost amount of money and I don't
understand why I have an idea but I want
to be cical about it we don't have a lot
of marginal seats in Bayside but it
seems to me that everywhere you turn
around Kingston they seem to be you know
applying for and hoping to get all
enormous amount of money for their new
swim in Mor alic and I know glenara
gets its fair share of funding from
federal and state and so I'm hoping that
we we will actually get some real money
for this project over the next few years
thank
you thank you Council Del
Porto in Council
castelli yes yes thank you yes I
remember we we spoke about this um and
and this has been going
since the last term since my second term
and and it was mentioned then that there
was no money and there's no budget but
it is a long term suggestion like the
city has
mentioned now I like this motion I think
this motion will give it it's what we
need a definite something
happening we were looking down a barrel
of deferring this and allowing the next
election the next next councilors
hopefully you know have their DEC
decision on their decision on this but
we thought um The Counselor um counselor
King thought no no no I think we should
make this decision right now her
suggestion her motion and councelor D
Porter's motion puts it all together
very
well because I'm and and I'm quite happy
with that because I would have hated to
see or hear what the
community would say on that deferral
CU I know they're wanting something and
they're wanting it now I know
that but this is great this will give it
its s um you know stability now to do
something and there'll be something
done we we must also be clear there is
no funding at this
stage
however when was the target 2030 was it
2030 of that some stage there might be
something there to start this
initiative I know that the Hampton
um Hampton needs a lot of refurbishment
and a lot of Maintenance and it
should be a priority and it is true that
people are leaving and going out to
other to other precincts for shopping
and there was one shop that would lead
that would actually take me to Hampton
that was a health store which is not
there anymore and the other one is the
restaurant that I love going to which we
do every
week but as far as shopping and things
like this it really is
tired so it needs
to needs that um
lift
so I'm hoping with this motion that
appeases our submitters and I thank you
for that those are great
submissions and very passionate people
that are that actually spoke
tonight um all I can say is totally
agree with it and hopefully in the next
term that we're all there again and um
be able to support
further into this
motion information there thank you
thank you councelor castelli thank you
are there any councelor Evans thank you
Madame May um Madame mayor let me say
as an architect this um scenario b or
option b concept B whatever you want to
call it is very exciting for me um I
think it's something that we do want
feedback from our our community but let
me say that all that green space at the
northern side facing the north is
something that I think that be welcome
to many of
um Traders within Hampton where they are
experiencing a highrise within their
Community which is undoubtedly a a
option that we have to increase our
density within the max that's an option
that we must be um must be faced with
but with facing that we also need to
have some green space around that that
people can go to the option b gives a
beautiful um landscaped area with the
buildings wedding cake back
from the north so I think that
particular option is in my view a really
great option to to start with and to
enhance and with this what I would
like to imagine is that we do within the
next few years if we are able to
diverse ourselves of a couple of
properties to be able to engage
advice from people to make sure that
this is a a a stage PR um Pro progress
so that we can absolutely start
something a little bit earlier but make
sure that we spend the money over a
number of years so um in my profession
Master planning is very good Master
planning also enables you to start
things a little earlier with smaller
amounts of money so again I would hope
that we would have advice from somebody
to to guide us with this so that
we build on the build on the concept
that we have which I think is a great
concept it won't it won't eventually end
up like that things change as the years
go by but again the principle of that
Northern Green Space where people can
then come from any part of Hampton
Street the Traders or anybody working
with in there to sit down and have a a
nice place where they can um and
can be I think is a really good thing
it's a really good Urban Design in my
view and I'd like to see it
progressed over a number of years and I
think that's part of the master planning
where if we set aside a bit of money per
year in the early years just toing we um
within this motion we're doing small
bits within the um the Hampton Street
itself thank to mam May's um
insistence about these little pieces but
I think also over the next few years we
just need a little bit of money so that
we can start the master planning of this
um option option b which I fully support
and I hope our community supports it as
well thank
you thank you councelor
Evans is there any other counselor that
wish is councelor
Martin you want me to scroll up a little
bit please can see the
formation
you okay look I um I I support this
motion um because it's been tailored to
ensure you know we can have flexibility
around it in principal support is a a
very good phrase for something like this
given what councilor Samuel King has
said and um what um councelor Evans has
just said um you know o over the journey
things can
change um we heard from the hna that
only one option was presented to their
650
members um but it wasn't costed and
there was no consequences well tonight's
the
consequences so tonight we find out it's
52 to 58 million and it's not going to
start before
2030
earliest
possible um I think that that's going to
be a shock to a lot of people clearly
me and I think that we are going to be
hurried up and we are going to be asked
to seek for further options and I think
when you hear people like Mr Packer
talking about his experience at Hampton
and also his experience with the
realities of of
life on the
street properties big companies big
opportunities or no
opportunities and I think I was in the
chamber the night and I think there's
other members of the community here
where the opportunity with the cruise
ship vanished like that and so did that
whole opportunity and Council had
nothing to do with that development and
then we sat and waited to see whether
they'd go or they wouldn't what would
happen to the buses then out of the blue
they announced and they start a
construction and now there's a cruy and
these things actually do happen and the
amount of land that is from warw Worth's
down to Willis Street on that Hampton
strip is enormous and the appetite for
housing and other
opportunities very close to Max for a
land opener like that I think is is we
all accept and we've all seen the
reality of
Hampton is very frightening for someone
who has been campaigning for appropriate
development for over two
decades and my conclusion from all of
that is that you need to get in front of
it and you need to partner up and you
need to make sure that you can influence
the applications before they're fully
cooked and arrive at our director's
feet so we have this motion that
actually provides all sorts of
opportunities for the offices the
community and other people and um that's
what this is needed because I've never
heard a CEO say it so clearly there is
no money for the project I I was going
to debate tonight whether the word
project should be used because my
definition of project I've done done
project management for a long time is
that a project must have a start date it
must have a finish date and you must be
able to measure some things in between
this does not tick any of those boxes
this is a notion now it's just a
notion um and just to finish off the
Reliance on the state and federal
governments to
fund millions and millions of dollars to
build our community Hub without us doing
the hard work with our neighbors I think
is remote it's a very different exercise
to what we've achieved in other parts of
Bayside um but I do support the words
written up there tonight thank you thank
you councelor Martin councelor El Samuel
El
moan thank you mad M I'm sorry for my
tongue TI this tonight yep I I heard my
fellow councilors and um the one thing
that I don't like is that the phrase
over the journey things can change I am
hoping that couple of things don't
change in that op option which is the
number of
Stories on
page 69 is three so I really hope this
doesn't change and it stays three
levels what's not going to change I hope
is a public outdoor spaces
3,425 square
m these are the things that attracted me
to this option
too the things that I don't want to see
is a spread of that commercial one zone
and the height limit onto our land which
is Council land that some of it is
actually grz with a maximum height limit
of three that is
something I will fight for for the
Hampton Community I don't want to say an
increase of the levels of above
three there is also 135 car parking
underneath that option so this option
really takes off so many boxes in my
opinion it is a good outcome having the
open space to the
north to put it in perspective the open
space is
3,425 square
m if people here have seen the seven
World Street pocket Park which is around
the
650 this is more than five times five
times that pocket space and that is to
the north facing it's not getting
overshadowed so I really believe it's a
really good outcome from an urban design
from an urban perspective it's a
fantastic
outcome we stuck to the he limit we
provided the north facing we provided
the car parking and we made sure that
this creep of the six seven whatever
levels you want to call it that can
happen on Hampton is not going to spread
to World Street and for that reason I am
supporting this now I like to make sure
that bring to the attention of the
people watching that it is the start of
the project 2030 unless external funding
is obtained and I am really hoping by
external funding it can be some type of
funding that we can Source through
grants from the government or even
through maybe not some people might like
to leave some money for the Hampton Hub
and contribute to it so I'm I'm hoping
that can be the case and we can start
that project before the
20130 I take my hat off to the
Hampton Street Traders Association while
done on kickstarting that Association
again and a massive thanks to the
Hampton neighborhood association they
testly worked on this they've been
working extremely hard they actually got
their own perspectives done at some
stage I am hoping that this actually
falls in line is of your expectations I
am looking forward to this getting
started and I am really hoping it starts
before the
2030 thank you councelor eloam um I'd
also like to thank a large number of
people who sent in emails um and
providing input and some of the themes
that came out the very very strong
themes was that people wanted to see
Green Space they wanted to see the
Community Village feel they thought that
Hampton Street had become or the Hampton
Precinct had become rather dilapidated
it needed a lot of love and it's
interesting that the word love was
actually used I wanted to see that it
was there was ification projects that
were happening they also didn't want to
lose any parking so thank you for all of
that input and then together with that
input I think as a council we reached
consensus to actually put this motion up
and I I think that was great work from
all of us um to actually put something
together that recognized the
difficulties in a project of this size
so there was a realistic time frame it
took into account the feedback that we
got from from the residents it looks at
how we can provide that green space but
importantly it also looks at how we can
do some interventions in the shorter
term um and there's a huge amount of
work that the officers have done as you
can see in point s all the different
strategies that we can draw on to
hopefully bring some of that love and
beautification to Hampton Street and the
precinct including Willer street so
councellor Samuel King do you wish to
close yes madame mayor I would like to
thank the Hampton neighborhood
association and the Hampton Traders
Association and also my fellow
councilors as you said that this motion
before us is very much a joint effort of
my fellow councilors and the offices and
the neighborhood
association we found ourselves in a
really difficult position and even just
two days ago I felt the whole thing was
a drift and I was really disheartened
and it's really been the work of
everyone around this table
and the key community
members that has made us actually be
able to move forward in Hope knowing
that okay let's be real we're not in a
great situation financially but let's at
least land on something we know to be
good and then work out okay how are we
going to do this guys um so I'm very
very grateful um to be here this evening
and actually be be potentially able
to be part of a unanimous vote so thank
you madam
mayor all those in
favour councilors castelli Del Porto
Evans Martin Samuel King Elam and stick
fold carried there were none
against item 10.3 regulation of
commercial job andil
reses there were no requests to be heard
can I have
a
can I have a mover and a second council
castelli do I have a second or councelor
Martin councelor
castelli yes I'm in favour of this policy
I actually support
it um after the wisha
um Saga that I went through there was
a huge complaint about dog
walkers um I know it's a business so
we're going to have to treat it as a
business so in order to appease the
residents that live around there and
perhaps even the dog owners this
policy will cover everything that we
need
to appease who who lives around
then in
particular just put
one
so regulating commercial dog walkers
using Council reserves in melan you can
focus on the following points which I
have done here so in particular for
environmental
impact and I've seen dog workers and
they've had about eight
dogs on a leash or they let them go once
they get in there but some of them
actually walked
through where the the community and the
residents you know have their little
play and in the area with the children
which is quite incredible so
um so with the environmental
environmental impact you got to
highlight the environmental impact of
unregulated commercial dog walking such
as damage to vegetation erosion of
walking tracks and disrup disruption of
wildlife habitats regulation can help
mitigate this impact and ensure
responsible use of council Resorts the
community safety comes into this as well
emphasize the importance of ensuring the
safety of all Park users including dog
walkers and their clients
regulation can establish guidelines for
Behavior leash laws and waste disposal
promoting a safe and enjoyable
environment for
everyone fair use of public
spaces argue that commercial dog workers
should be regulated to ensure fair and
Equitable use of public
spaces this is what this policy is in
today regulation can prevent
overcrowding conflicts between users and
ensure that all Park visitors and have
have access to and can enjoy the
reserves and certainly there has been a
lot of conflict in
wisha so this will this has actually
come at a great
time now Professional
Standards advocate for regulation to
establish Professional Standards for
commercial dog walkers including
training requirements and
Insurance so and there's also is
there a time on when they can actually
do War so anyone could answer councelor
castelli is that a question to question
off
offic through you Madame mayor um as per
the report where officers are
recommending that there are a number of
changes that need to be undertaken as
part of um future review of the domestic
animal management plan and a future
local law review and at that point in
time when those reviews are
considered um it would be expected that
restrictions on dog numbers and
restriction on locations primarily for
dog walking from occurring would be um
would be investigated and implemented
thank you that's a good answer thank you
councelor Castell councelor Martin yeah
look I support this I think um I think
the report says it'll be $20,000 for us
to go ahead and um review the bylaw with
without um you know incorporating it
into the review of the domestic animal
management plan and also um the current
um regular review that we do of the
municipality bylaws and I think that um
this is a much better approach um the
report clearly says I think somewhere
that um Council officers are confident
the substantive issues can be
effectively managed within the existing
resources and requirements
um seems to be a fair bit of confidence
within the offices that they can Reign
these dog walking businesses in and
ensure that they're um not doing the
kind of things that that some of the
councilors have seen I've seen it and
but many members of the public have seen
it where you know the the vehicle turns
up they open open the back hatch out
come 6 to eight dogs they let them free
on a locked up Reserve get on the mobile
phone goes ping they've done the 20
minutes they round them up and put them
back in the car and that that's their
business and we we've really can fix
that just by through our own um byw you
know our own laws that we've got in
place under the domestic a management
plan so um it is important to recognize
that these matters cost a lot of money
and and divert what we're trying to do
um when we can do them under the
existing laws that we've got in place um
I think this is another example of you
know a lot of people see councils as you
know rubbish collectors and M The Lawns
and all this sort of stuff well well it
gets more difficult and nuanced than
that like councils aren't just people
that pick up the garbage and just get on
with it councils actually have to get in
and get involved and deal with sports
clubs deal with the maintenance of
sports ground ensure that our
stakeholders are left um you know with
proper expectations the management of
the land that we've got is done properly
so we don't end up with a community that
is at Absolute ad adversarial
face-to-face arguments in Parts about
your dog this dog that's what councils
do it's hard work it's never
acknowledged it's never acknowledged but
this type of AG gender item is exactly
the type of agender item that needs to
be dealt with because we've got 122,000
dogs running around the municipality and
it's really difficult it's in fact very
very frustrating to see a million
dollars worth of um Sports ground
upgraded and a dog digging it up and no
one's taking any responsibility well
this report's dealing with that and I
think that that's the sort of thing that
um people need to understand that
councils do this sort of stuff day in
day out and this this is the background
to it so thank you thank you councelor
Martin coun Evan oh thank you Madame May
um yes Madam May well whilst not
encouraging councils to be over
regulated um I do think that this I
do support this that next time it's
reviewed that we just do have a balance
of um any commercial activity on
Council land coming in um in line with
any other commercial developments
that we have on campus land but also we
we must must also be very careful that
there are a lot of dog owners that we
don't offend a lot of dog owners that
aren't in the category of commercial dog
walkers so again it's something I think
that we have to tread lightly with
not being over regulated but also
trying to ensure that people that do
make commercial benefits out of
using public land that it has to be
paid for so just careful care I think
next one thank you councilor Castell do
you wish to
close just a question to the officers
I think there's no more time for
questions I think if you could just
close please okay I would suggest this
would be a revenue generated um um
policy which is um would be really
good um so so includes licensing or
permit fees for commercial dog workers
which could gener
erate revenue for the council this
Revenue could be used to maintain and
improve the reserves benefiting or Park
uses and I think that's part of the
policy I would suggest and um Community
consultation with done that and
enforcement um this policy also stresses
the need for Effective
enforcement of Regulation to ensure
compliance by commercial dog workers
this this could involve regular
monitoring of Park I would suggest that
be part of that usage and the expections
of commercial dog walking operations and
penalties for non-compliance would be um
another gener you know Revenue
generation thank you councelor castelli
all councilors in favour councilors
castelli Del Porto Evans Martin Samuel
King eloam and stick fold carried their
were nil
against may I remind councilors that
we're only up 10.4 and it is quarter to
9 so if we can make sure that we keep
this moving along thank you 10.4
Municipal Emergency Management Plan
update do I have a move councelor Martin
second move with Amendment
please could you read the amendment
please that notes the report and
the update in relation to the municipal
Emergency Management plan two ensures
that the communications plan in response
to an emergency considers the role of
mayor and is that cited in the plan you
got
to that that'll be in the
draft through you CH chair it won't
be cited in the plan um the plan has
already been endorsed by the regional um
committee but it would be
something the Commerce team would do in
any
case chair the
this plan is not necessarily council's
to own on its own behalf there there are
a whole range of combating agencies that
need to be consulted and and and sign
off on the contents of this plan what I
think what you're looking for is that we
have a Communications plan that sits in
parallel to the overarching plan and I
think the point you're trying to make is
that the mayor will play a role in an
emergency situation under certain
circumstances and that that role needs
to be clear in the communications plan
which sits on alongside the overarching
emergency
plan yeah look thank you I I want to
highlight it because we have a second oh
sorry sorry I'm happy to Second all
thank you very much cancel um samel king
um yeah I I wanted to um just just
highlight this because I think it's
really important because every time I
see an emergency in the municipality of
wherever the mayor ends up being there
and we actually saw it in our own
municipality when councelor Del Porto um
was speaking in front of the media and
we are media trained when we're Mays but
um it you need to be a part of the
emergency plan to understand what's
going on around you and I learned that
when I was the mayor when they stood up
a evacuation point in Command Center etc
etc etc and um you know it would have
been good to be a bit of a bit more part
of that planning than just the aside
saying oh by the way you've got to go
out there
and talk to the media um so I really do
hope the council takes that into account
of course this is um run by state
government agencies and regionally based
and all all the other things that um
take into account but it it also is
important in a time where in the last
four weeks we've had emergencies in
Bayside so um you know we we've had
floods in Meer we've had all sorts of
things happen in fact some would say
we've just kind of had some near misses
so I'm really glad that we've got an
updated plan and I'm glad that there is
more and more emergency planning because
unfortunately I think we're going to
need it so thank you councelor Samuel
King Reserve councel Mar is there
anybody else wish
question on page 90 under the fire
Management in Bushland reserves it state
that the fire brakes were pruned and
inspected by fire rescue Victoria and
council local laws prior to the summer
so my question relate to the if the
fire rescue Victoria done an assessment
along the Bayside forh sure is that part
of the same thing or are they
different through you I don't know
exactly where the fire breaks
are um but yeah that the assessment
was undertaken of the fire breaks that
are determined as a result of the state
framework
it's true chair I I believe um it's been
a while since I've been directly
involved in these conversations my
understanding is that the forer is
assessed as part of this process and and
the fire BR is essentially Beach
Road okay thank El did you wish to
debate no no I just wanted to make
sure that we do have a fire break every
now and then I pick up my son from
school down in Menton and councelor Elmo
are you debating yes yes just saying the
reason I've asked because I do have
concerns about the foreshore
specifically in certain areas in bayad
and the around the Ricket Point area
concern me when I'm driving to pick up
my son so as long as this has been
looked at by the fire rescue Victoria
and we're comfortable then yeah I'm
happy to
support councelor Martin did you wish to
close all those in favour councilor
castelli Del Porter Evans Martin Samuel
King Elma Alam and sfold carried there
were none against
10.5 public toilet strategy review
engagement there were no requests to be
heard do I have a mover counil Martin
second councelor Evans councelor Martin
yeah look we did have a question on this
and it is a um ongoing matter I I just
would like everyone to understand that
this is putting our strategy out for
consultation and um and we're all
looking forward to hearing the feedback
and um and getting the information
with the community that we need this is
not an approval of the strategy thank
you councelor Martin councelor
Evans is no further debate all of those
just another question m m apologies but
a question would that be put through
specifically to the disability access
and inclusion advisory committee
through you chair yes the intention
is in fact for it to go to the committee
next week thank
you thank you all those in favour council
is Deli Del Porto Evans Martin Samuel
King Elma wallam and sfold carried there
is none
against question 10.6 proposed leases
Brighton Golf Course requests to be
heard there were two requests to speak
received to this item could the first
Speaker Mr
Dan hilston on behalf of council watch
in Incorporated please approach the
speaker's
table
good evening and thank you councilors I
draw your attention on this item to
section nine of the Local Government Act
which makes it clear in all your
decision making priority is to be given
to achieving the best outcome for the
community including future Generations
you also have to give consideration
to the economic social and environmental
sustainability of the district and you
must consider the ongoing Financial
viability of the council
as someone who looks at thousands of
Council meetings and thousands of
proposals like this across the country
is this the best we can
do the options for you are to do things
like build a ground sorry offer a ground
lease and allow the person to build or
potentially build it yourself but we've
heard there is no money and lease it out
the significant rent free in these deals
are not commercial I should know it's my
specialty there is also a sharing of
income from the actual
telecommunications Tower why on Earth
would any counselor give away money
that's benefiting the
community Your Role is to manage money
for the benefit of residents your assets
your infrastructure and as we know there
isn't a lot of money to do that so
anything that gives away money that
could be made
is not the right way to go you're also
looking at assets that will depreciate
over the potential 45-year term to not
be worth much or need significant
funding in the
future that is not a responsible
decision in our
opinion I also draw you to the fact that
there are around 102,000 people in your
municipality and you're making a
decision based on 46
responses some of the words in those
respon sponsors look like they were
staff or Associated entities I don't
mean Council staff just to make that
clear this decision feels rushed in an
election year thank you your time is up
um councilor Martin you had a question
for Mr yeah um thank you Mr Hurston
and thank you for sending all your
emails and introducing yourself to all
of us councilors over the last few
months regularly um it's it's good good
to have a new organization in in the um
patch are you aware the council's
proposing to build a a pool on the site
why why the rent there's a rentree um
thing has that will it take 8 years to
build the pool well I just wanted to ask
whether you were aware because you
didn't mention it in
your um in your
statement so you were aware absolutely
but it doesn't take 8 years to build a
pool no no it doesn't but the the second
question is is that you said that you're
a bit of a well you you said that
this is your expertise in leasing in
your yep possibly professional life have
you come across um other leases where
there's a lease free period yep because
the building's getting built yeah
absolutely yeah but the leas free period
on a 15year deal for example would never
be 8 years that's completely
uncommercial
completely uncommercial that's in your
opinion in my experience of lacing
thousands of buildings including ground
laces construction and developments all
right well I just wanted to check on all
of that so thank you and I've got a
question for the officers if I actually
can thank you Mr hon you can take your
seat I have a couple of questions for Mr
hon if that's okay apologies Mr lovely
to meet you thank you my my mom is a
Stonington resident are you a Basi
resident no I'm a Stonington resident
but we have a group here okay and also
have you been elected to a a position on
Council in in your life in the past or
have you been a member of parliament no
I have not been a member of Parliament
and I'm not a member of council but but
in the past no not in the past but my
partner is the mayor of Stonington okay
but you yourself have not been on
Council and haven't been involed
excuse me councel Del Porter could you
ask a question related to the proposed
leases on the Brighton Golf Course
please yes I I have yes I'd like to find
out you know your experience I
understand you have lening experience
yeah sure and I'm happy to talk to you
offline yeah but I just want to know
exactly where you are from the other
point of view of experience from you
know as a as an elected person thank
you thank you Mr hson there's no
further questions for you and there is a
question there a question to the
officers thank you councilor M you can
take your seat
please um thank you Mr Hurston um
suggests that or was quite firm in his
opinion that an 8year um rentree period
is not
commercial could the officer respond to
that
please and and could I check that it is
an 8-year rent
free through you chair um the
rentree period on the warm water pool
proposed is 8 years
um in terms of is it commercial um it's
the position that we negotiated with the
um incumbent tenant in relation to being
a to access the site um council's view
was it preferred capital investment um
into the site so that's what we've
sought to achieve um it's fair to say
that a warm water pool is more more of a
public benefit asset as opposed to a
commercial returning asset um and from a
projections point of view the rent um
takes into account the significant
operating costs that are going to be
associated with that site um so from our
point of view we believe we've
negotiated the best outcome for the
community that gives access to the site
to construct the war waterer pool as
well as um providing a commercial return
into the future it's important to
note that there's a turn rental
component that kicks in when the um
occupancy agreement occupancy
certificate is issued for that site so
we will be gen generating rental over
that 8year period we just won't be
generating the 60,000 which is the
starting rental for that
lease councelor Martin so you know I'm
definitely not a leasing expert but so
just to be clear we are generating
generating income during the 8-year
period And then after the 8-year period
we kick into
um the full rental agreement and that
goes for how many
years um through you I believe the um
the term of that rent that the agreement
is um I think it's 21 years for the um
including all the
options so 10 plus 10 sorry it's 20
years 10 plus 10 and just one last
question so just to be absolutely clear
because um you know Mr Mr hurston's come
down
here all of the costs of running this
facility for the
21-year lease have been have been so the
council is is not exposed because we all
do know that running these facilities
are very
expensive and um that's that was one of
our key consider considerations going
into it that that risk is borne by the
operator that's correct the operational
um requirements of the site are born by
the operator thank
you could I have a mve
please oh
apologies just trying to move things
along M un Unis still if you'd like
to come to the table
please good
evening golf has been on the decline in
recent years with much competition from
other sporting
activities there are numerous golf
courses in Bayside and surrounds some
already closed or
amalgamating with this in mind I feel
counil need to be conservative in
regards to their proposals in the long
term also noting that bluefit has not
maintained the site to a high standard
with possible non-compliance of trade
practice
regulations another disadvantage is the
poor response from the community we
cannot accurately assess Community
opinion when there are only 48
responses Which is less than
0.005% of bayside's
population a lot more investigation
needs to be done before important
decisions are made moving
forward the next and most crucial point
is a lack of financial Clarity and cost
benefit looking at figures provided it
appears that we would actually be losing
money in the first 10 years so this
sharing of income would be detrimental
to
Bayside coupled with receiving a 45y old
building returned from
bluefit there is over four years
remaining on the current lease so
Council need to assess maintenance costs
income and site constraints to ensure
whether the site remains
viable the designs and plans need to be
completed before any leases are
provided with this information they
could then proceed with public tender to
ensure transparency and
competitiveness otherwise basai could
lose substantial commercial income in
relation to a conflict of interest with
bluefit and decisions regarding length
and number of
leases at the present time this proposal
is of no benefit to Bayside rate payers
thank
you thank you Miss steel are there any
questions of Miss
still no you could take your seat please
okay councelor Samuel King you're moving
I'd like to move an alternate
recommendation could you read the
alternate please yep
so as per officers with the alternate
being the lease will include a special
condition that requires bluefit
2.1 Point continue to mitigate The
Escape of golf balls from the site
maintain adequate insurance policies and
procedures to manage damage caused by
stray golf balls to Neighborhood
neighboring
properties report on the frequency and
volume of golf balls leaving the
premises and damage caused to
neighboring properties and steps taken
to resolve continue to pursue short
medium and long-term solutions to The
Escape of golf balls from the site do I
have a second second councilor Del Porto
second councelor Samuel King you wish to
reate just before I do just to ask a
question of the officers for clarity the
my understanding of the rentree period
is it's because of the capital
investment that the Le is putting in
have I got that around the through you
chair that is in relation to the golf
course component so um bluefit will be
contributing $1 million of capital
investment whilst having a red free
period over two years yes and similarly
with the contribution to the Pro Shop
being 495,000 and 1 million correct yes
and if they weren't putting so
conversely if they were not putting in
that um would be pay work then would be
paying rent that correct corre good
thank
you so I'll debate
um thank you to the officers for getting
us to this point it's been a long and
thoughtful and considered process where
I've seen our officers work very hard to
get the absolute best deal from a
commercial perspective and from a
resident
perspective what I've seen from the
community feedback is that the the
community and from what I've heard from
residents who live around this area is
they very supportive of the golf course
they're incredibly supportive of the
warm water pool and the wellness
center the one ongoing and com
abiding concern that the very nearby
residents have is that golf balls stay
within the site
now that hasn't been happening the
golf balls have been landing on
residents houses and breaking tiles and
the on their roofs and
potentially risking human life and
health I've been very concerned that
it's only a matter of time before we
have a very serious incident and we must
have in this lease and it must be
properly what's the word enforced
that it is the Le's responsibility to
keep golf balls on site and when they do
go off site to actually compensate the
relevant residents um so I I understand
that bluefit is more than happy with
this condition um and I I trust that the
residents also will be so thank you
thank you councelor Samuel King
councelor Del Porto thank you Madame
mayor Madame mayor U council is a
service provider and that was the only
reason why I was going I was asking
questions of the residents
um so what we have to do always is
balance the residents needs where we
can meet them and also the financial
obligations we have towards rate payers
and to try to be as sound as we can with
their money now Bayside and is probably
one of the oldest demographics in
Melbourne in Metro Melbourne and we have
older people like me and even older all
around Bayside but we also have them
clustered particularly near the 13 and
14 retirement nursing homes that we
have in in Brighton and Brighton East
and we also have a heck of a lot of
people elderly people living on their
own which we do encourage with support
from Council living all around Bayside
a few years ago we had we've had
we've had a number of inquiries about
what do we do we we need a hydrotherapy
I've just you know fallen or I just
need some you know I've got arthritis or
I need to have some sort of medical U
um support what do we do and we I
remember talking to a former mayor who's
here with us here tonight and he got a
letter from basa resident saying I need
to go to hydrotherapy pool could you
direct me to one in Bayside and all we
could offer at the time was a community
bus to go to G
which is in glenira because we actually
don't have we didn't have any any such
thing so my way thinking is that there's
a definite need for a hydrotherapy slw
mot pool in Bayside we're responding
to a clear need that that our residents
have because I think we the
demographics show that as you get older
you need more all kinds of support and
all kinds of therapy um this facility
will have Alli Services as well
provided in with the warat pool so all
in all I think we we if Council supports
we're actually striking pretty good
pretty good deal pretty good balance
they have give they will provide us with
a million and a half of their own money
I don't even I don't refer to the
wellness center because that's a
separate project which is not a
council project but the ones we're
interested in I think that um we've done
pretty well swimming pools are not
famously profitable all around Victoria
in general and so to be able to make it
attractive you have to include things
like U swimming classes swimming schools
and that sort of thing learn to swim so
I think that we have to keep that in
mind um my view is that it's a much
needed service I think that we've
done the best we can with what we had
blue fit now now has a lease on the land
we couldn't very well just say get out
we'll do our own thing would have cost
us a lot of money if we we' been in
breach of the contract and they have
a right to renew the contract as well so
given what we had I think we've done a
very good job in in Striking a deal
that is good for rate payers good for
demographics the demographics were
looking for we're also providing a learn
to swim school which is much needed
in the area because the one that was
used by a lot of Brighton residence in
Bay Street has closed down so it's it
ticks a lot of boxes and I just hope
Council can understand that and support
it
tonight thank you Council Del Porto
we are speaking about the laces does
anybody have any comment about the
laces got a
question thank to the offices councilor
Martin yeah um I just I I am starting
this obviously 45 people which was I
think
0.001% of the bide population responded
to our communication piece um but I am
starting to get questions about this um
this lease down at um at Brighton and I
just want Council officers if they
possibly could to step me through the
differences between this lease with blue
fin and the lease at the sandam Leisure
Center
so three chair if I'm understanding the
question right is it why we're leasing
with bluefit on this site in the way
we're doing it so
um as as the um incumbent tenant um
once Council made a decision that his
preferred location was Brighton Golf
Course um we needed then NE negotiate
access to the site um with them um to
allow Council to be a to develop the
warm water pool um at the same time um
the previous tenant which um has the
obligations have been taken on by um by
bluefit proposed a Wellness Center so
there's some level of synergy with the
site for those elements um so we have
gone through a fairly standard lease
negotiation with an incumbent tenant to
try and come up with a solution that
works for the site that provides um
significant Community benefits to be
honest actually fairly similar to how we
would negotiate with any other incumbent
tenant in relation to Future lease um
so our policy allows first right um to
negotiate a um a lease um they're
putting significant Capital into the
site um the terms that are being offered
and the additional rental that will come
from the site with those new leases
creates two new revenue streams for
Council as well as pursuing those um
objectives the council's trying to
achieve with um the um therapeutic pool
and those other um things so yeah look
in terms of how we've gone about it um
fairly similar to how we go about other
leases with an incumbent tenant um I
think it's also important to remember
that with this site there has been
significant Community consultation in
relation to the developments that are
proposed so the warm water pool in
particular um and the least process in
terms of the have your say still goes
out to to our entire um audience of um
community members who have an interest
in have your say it's a fairly large um
group we also circulated to all of the
immediate residents around the golf
course so we were trying to elicit the
responses that were appropriate given
that this is a high-profile site and
they are a number of high-profile
projects so we've probably done more um
in terms of seeking a wider audience
from a consultation point of view um
with this site than we would for any
other
site and just before I debate to make it
absolutely clear um there is there is no
way that the completion of this project
would then possibly argue down the track
that well we've already got a new
pool up at up at um the Brighton golf
course why should we replace the sanding
ham Aquatic Center councelor Martin I
think that's a speculative question if
if you wish to debate about the Le yes
I'll debate about the leases look it's
very pleasing to hear that the leases
have been done in a commercial
way clearly a very good commercial way
over the 21 year Journey it sounds like
a very good deal considering the fact
that there was four years to run plus an
option as Council Del Porto has pointed
out it seems to be the only way to get
get a um much needed facility built
so when you've got those commercial
realities in place you do need to have a
negotiated settlement which is exactly
what our officers have done I I couldn't
actually kind of
Define in any greater detail that that
is a commercial completed
negotiation and well done to the
officers which has been prepared here
tonight and I think it has taken well
over 2 years I was hearing this very
early on we were giving a great deal of
information that if you do want to go
ahead with this they're going to have to
go and talk to them and they're going to
have to then go and talk about the
leases and we're going to have to do
this and that and the tower and off it
went and here we are tonight through the
end of the process with a viable
commercial proposition that would stand
up in any Marketplace any Marketplace
from what I
gather hang on guys point of order point
of order you know quiet thank you
you continue
please they've they've I've noticed that
they have
deist
well you know we we've been very
respectful the gallery please needs to
remain quiet while people are speaking
we need to show respect
please thank you I really do hope these
Chambers remains um respectful I really
do it is so so important they may not
but I hope they do I just wanted to
finish on the point that I made is that
we're at the end of the lease is an end
of a a um fit forp purpose Aquatic
Center down in Sandringham and I think
that this work that we've done up in
Brighton is a really good precedent and
can show the community that this sort of
um funding model can be used to upgrade
things and do things so it's funny how
these sort of things are starting to
align and and um some people would say
why don't you just put a Walmart pool
with a hydrotherapy thing in the
chw well that adds up to millions and
you wouldn't get it done this way by
separating it out you separate your car
parking you meet the needs of the
community as counil Del Porto says that
side of town has got a larger retirement
um and elderly population demographic so
it does seem to make sense and the cream
on top is actually that closure of the
um
of that other Swim Center is now going
to give the children and other people
who can't swim the opportunity to learn
swim within Bayside thank
you there is no one else wishing to
speak those would couple questions
Adam M couple questions is it possible
to break there's currently three leases
we're talking about is it possible to
only look into the lease for the warm
water pool rather than looking into the
other two leases
through you chair that's not the way
that um the lease has currently been
negotiated it would mean going back to
um blue fed and renegotiating an entire
new
lease thank you another question I heard
that the blue fed got 4 years left plus
option that's new to me the option can
you please confirm if they got an
option through you chair we're in the
last four years of the current R so
there's an option thank you
maybe another one more question please I
understand it's regarding the turnover
so we do have a turnover of 1.5% on the
warm water
pool but the turnover on the wellness
center which is getting 10 years of
rentree period is subject to sales
exceeding 12.5 the base rent can you
just verify how that works for me
please
this will test my um maths I think um
so it's similar to what we've got in
place for our commercial cafes so it's
based on um their turnover um so their
turnover and looking at um a multiple
from the base rent the way we've
assessed that is it will probably
generate um a further 250,000 plus um
Revenue once the side is up and
operating at its full commercial
capacity cancellate did you wish to
debate I'll debate Madame M yes
you're probably aware what happened at
the last meeting on the 21st of November
23 I wasn't comfortable with this even
though as much as I
support the warm water pool on the 21st
of November I actually couldn't support
the
leases it just to me having
negotiating three leases instead of the
oneof for the warm water pole is just
not I'm not comfortable
we're looking into a combination of
20 years of rent free period over the
last over the three leases and the
turnover I've actually done the math of
the
12.5% they actually need to be
making around
$66,000 per week before we actually
start getting any benefit of the
turnover I'm not sure if we're going to
get any turnover R to be honest from
that project but also the main point I
have we just made a deal on the school
side for the netball Center and I
believe we we spent around 20 million of
our money but we only get I believe 30
year period least here we are talking
about 45 years 45 years we're locking
that place up for 45 years we're going
to end up with a facility at the end of
its life cycle going to cost this money
to actually pull down and we're giving
them 10 years of free rent and Pro was
just saying we're going to get 75%
turnover which I don't believe it's
going to eventuate making $110,000 a day
that is now Madame mayor I would really
like to see the warm water separated
from these two because I also have
concerns what happened if we end up
signing these leases and we don't for
some reason we don't get a planning
permit for them we've had a situation
down at the wangara road where I believe
there was a commercial agreement and
then we decided to move the netball some
somewhere else I'm not sure what
happened there but I I think we need to
learn from previous experiences we need
to make sure that all the Ducks are in
the row before we commit to three leases
now I am the biggest supporter of the
warm water pool I'll support this one
but in the last meeting I was told if
you don't support the laces you don't
support the warm water pool now I
support the warm water pool I just
cannot get myself to support three laces
on
342,000 s m of Braden East land that's
coming out in 3 years which probably in
2 years we'll be looking into rendering
it so the tenant is getting a really
good deal he's getting the cake the
cherries the cream he's getting
absolutely everything out of us and I'm
just not comfortable supporting
this thank you councelor Samuel King did
you wish to
CL there's a word I learned in the
United States I don't know if it's one
that's well sorry councelor Samuel King
but councel castelli if you wish to
speak please do so um indicate so that I
can see her more quickly
sorry okay yes this has been very
contentious yes I've been on the warm
water pool adventure for two terms right
now now I have been confronted by a
group of um people in the
community um asking for a meeting with
me and luckily I had someone another
counselor with me but it it is very
confronting when you got 20 women there
that are asking you questions if I'm
interested in in um or supporting a warm
water Hydro
pool which um would benefit them in
particular with um rheumatisms and and
injuries and sport injuries and all of
those
things I'd like to thank the speakers I
understand where they're going with this
I do and I also understand councelor
Mahal's reason for not supporting cuz I
look at it as a business it is a
business but however the 8y year free
rent I think what it is is that gives us
EX to this pool it lands on the is that
right it gives us access to the pool
area is that the reason why I'll take
that as a rhetorical question than is
it it might be you're in the middle of a
debate okay so the question is can I ask
the officers again to reiterate Council
castelli you're debating please there's
no questions in the middle of the debate
oh right anyway that's what I've heard
this what I keep hearing sorry it is
late at night and my and I'm spinning
with this one anyway so look I do
support
it I'll have to support
it due to the health benefits this
warm water pool will give I understand
there's two other leases in there I
understand the reasons for those two
leases but I can see what the speakers
and I can see what Council Mahal is
heading to with this um it is given them
a free rign quite for some time and
actually I was kind of surprised it was
8
years you know but
my my thing is that I cannot not support
this at all so I would have hu um a
group a huge group as a matter of fact
on our back and and these this pool is
needed and we've also had and it
reinforces again that this that there's
been discussions in
hydrotherapy and warm water which is SL
warm
water is a
benefit it is a
benefit so I'm here to support this and
I understand like I understand what
everyone mentioned good points even with
counselor M Martin really good points
there as well thank you councelor Samuel
King did you wish to close yes to be
a good counselor it requires more than
pragmatism pragmatism is part of it
commercial nous is part of
it sensible commercial deals are part
of it but it's also about vision and
it's about Humanity which gets back to
counselor Castello
humanity is about hearing people saying
I need a pull I desperately need a pull
can you build us something the vision is
actually saying yes we can do it and
then pragmatism is realizing if we're
going to pull off this Vision we've got
to be real we've got to work with the
people who have the lease and negotiate
and we've done it we've been slow
considered and
reasonable and I thank the officers for
what we've got before us thank you thank
you all those in favour councilors
castelli Del Porto Evans Martin El
Samuel King and sfold all those against
councilor El moam
carried item 10.7 fraud and Corruption
prevention policy review there were no
requests to be heard do I have a mover
councelor Martin and a seconder happy to
move just with the slide
Amendment
could you read the amendment please the
council adopts the fraud and Corruption
prevention policy attachment one subject
to attending Section 8 amending Section
8 definition of the policy specifically
examples of fraud are but not limit to
as follows theft Andor misappropriation
of council Revenue theft of Digital Data
identity
theft do I have a seconder
second councelor Evans if be happy to
accept look thank you this is a very
timely um it's it's very timely to have
this policy review um and hopefully
it'll be 100%
implemented and it is taken incredibly
seriously the system that we're
currently operating in is very very
fragile um I'll disclose that I have
been um my my identity has been
stolen um and it is having a cascading
effect with right now 12 financial
institutions who are all taking it
extremely seriously because I've got
really really good people that are
looking after me stock Brokers
accountants people who um investigate
fraud I have become a subscriber to
Equifax which I recommend everyone doing
for
$9.95 which ensures your ident
I think this is just the start I think
if we haven't got our systems really
really rocks solid you know lock down
these attempts to get in will continue
and they'll find all sorts of different
ways to get in there the conversations
I've had over the last four months
regarding one my little um theft
which happened through the
atto happen through the
atto last August and there's a little
thing in the paper last week about 150
officers all caught up in a massive
problem not a conspiracy but that' all
been caught up across Australia and I
was caught up because of their undoing
and I just think this is to me the most
important thing because so much
transaction happens in a council and I
think I've heard Council Elam talking
about tens and tens of thousands of
dollars of rate payers money every year
every quarter every day there is money
coming in there's money going out and
there are people out there trying to get
hold of that money and it is so
important to get this right so um I just
wanted to put the identity theft in
there because I think that that is that
that that that's the next way of getting
in thank
you councelor Evans councelor Samuel
King yes this is the new organiz
crime the time for organized crime
making money out of drugs in this
country really is waning and organized
crime is turning more and more to this
kind of it
based way of moving money illegally out
of our bank accounts and in offshore and
one of the worst things I have seen is
identity theft it just can destroy
people so anything that sensible that
can be done to
support protecting us against organized
crime fraud and Corruption particularly
identity theft I support thank
you all those in favour councilors
castelli Council Del Porto Evans Martin
Samuel King El muam and sfold carried
there were none against I understand
that we have a block councelor we do I I
propose a block a a block
10.8 10.9 and 10.10 do I have a
second Council Del
Porto all those in favour councilors
castelli Del Porto Evans Martin Samuel
King ELO Elman tfold there are none
against
carried and we now moved to
item 11 reports by delegates the
association of Bayside municipalities I
report that we've had several meeting
meetings with ongoing discussions about
the way forward for the association of
Bayside municipalities with the
executive Metropolitan transport
Forum through you chair the MTF
met on the 6th of December A Farewell
was provided to the outgoing chair of
the Forum councelor Jonathan maren from
the city of Hobson's Bay who's been the
chair of the MTF since
2020 um m Alison mccormac CEO of bicycle
Network presented to the members on
their ambition to bring bikes into the
transport mainstream and Miss mccormac
described bicycle Network pragmatic
approach aiming to achieve permanent
infrastructure changes that will result
in more Riders more women Riders and
more younger and older Riders Port
Philip nck and whiteall City councils
provided the monthly update on transport
matters in their
municipalities thank you Miss
Carlson in a South Metropol May's Forum
nothing to report Southeast council's
climate change Alliance nothing to
report can I have a
mover councelor Del Porto and a seconder
councelor Samuel King all those in favour
councilor castelli Del Porto Evans
Martin Samuel King eloam and sfold there
were none against
carried item 12 urgent business there
was no urgent
business we now move to item 13 which is
is notices of motion 13.1 notice of
motion 331 maintaining existing car
parking Provisions within the activity
centers thank you Madame mayor yes I
give notice that I intend to move at a
council meeting tonight that Council
furthered its decision at the December
2022 council meeting to consider six
sites for conversion to public open
space resolve res Revol sorry resolves
to exclude any current car parking sites
and existing on street car parking
within activity centers from conversion
to open space through the a development
of Open Space strategy current work
being progressed as part of the higher
order
connectivity can we have it on
screen we're just working on it Tech
issue technical
issue
perhaps you could keep reading while we
deal with technical issue and the notice
of motion is printed in
the no it's same as printed C
implementation of the property strategy
D use of open space Reserve to purchase
appropriate land and activity centers
for open space and E consideration for
multi-deck parking with open space at
roof level I'll second
that thank you counselor Del Porto
seconding councelor Elma well you to
thank you councelor Del Porto yes madame
mayor when I was elected as a mayor
last year I actually promised that
I'll go around our shopping strips and
I'll talk to the Traders and the
residents and that's exactly what I've
done in my term now one of the main
issues and we even heard it tonight when
the Hampton Street Traders Association
presented was the concern that H that
through probably unintentionally the
creation of open space is going to
reduce the availability of the on street
parking I try to explain to people
that's not the intention we all
appreciate the open space and I am one
who fought for open space for the last
three or four years and I'm still
fighting for more open space but my
concern was that unintentionally we were
going to remove existing on street car
parking when we convert some of these
streets to open space and that is not I
believe the intention of this Council we
intend of yes creating the open space
but not at the expense of removing car
parking now I received a few submissions
here from the two of our major shopping
strips one of them the Church Street
Traders Association and one from the
Hampton Street Traders Association Mr
Evan pea thank you who's still here
tonight in the chamber and they are
actually both supporting this notice of
motion so the consequences unfortunately
by if we end up removing some street
parking is going to be devastating to
some
businesses some businesses rely heavily
on the existing car parking now this
motion is not asking not to provide open
space of course we are but we need to
look into providing the open space
without removing existing car parking so
I hope my fellow councilors understand
it is it's a win win for the creation of
open space and also for maintaining
existing car parking so I hope it get
the support
tonight Council Del Porter Reserve
question Council question officers Madam
me um with this
um if if if for instance a car park
is removed and open space can be found
to provide open space for that car
park is that if if you remove one and
find a place for open space is is
that part and parcel of this um motion
do you
me CH can I just clarify the question so
are you referring to a situation where
there might be an existing car park that
is replaced with open space but the
car parks that were lost on that side
are provided on another yes site in the
general recing was that the question
yeah that's
yeah s Madam May um the current policy
which Council adopted um didn't
necessarily refer directly to the
replacement of um car parking where open
space um were was proposed to um be I
guess located um but it didn't preclude
Council from looking at alternate
locations okay s s chair but I think the
intention of cancel
Helms and it's probably a question for
cancel on my reading I'm happy I'm happy
to clarify
too I believe this got the flexibility
to provide it somewhere else the
intention is the entire Street for
example I heard whispers about small
Street being closed or parts of Church
Street or parts of melro street so it is
when you're talking we're not talking
one car space we're talking an entire
Street being
closed councelor Samuel King you had a
question I had a question both of
councelor eloam and officers councelor
Elam I thought we had come to an
alternative motion that um didn't
resolve to exclude any car parking sites
um I'm not sure what happened if you
changed your mind
I'm happy to answer this Madame May
councelor Samuel King what I believe is
he can always move a motion at any time
it's to at any time so even if this has
gone through tonight or night at any
time anyone can move a motion or part of
a report to
change apologies can you sit
down speaking Yeah so anyone in the
future on any project if there is any
alterations needed my understanding is
it can be dealt with with a specific
Motion in regard specific to that
point um just y so just clarifying this
is this is what you're putting before us
yes yes okay um and a question to
officers um say the um Hampton Hub um
could we even continue with the Hampton
Hub option b
if we are resolving to exclude any
current car parking sites from
conversion into public open
space through you Madame mayor um if
this motion is put and accepted
then obviously going forward officers
would be U making its decisions based on
a position of not considering car parts
it would create a difficulty in terms of
um progressing the Hampton hub proposal
which is the preferred option that was
adopted earlier um but Council has also
resolved a position to proceed on option
U or scenario B which would um would see
the car park potentially developed with
um built form and open
space CH I think I do think we need to
really clarify the intent of this motion
so as I understood the previous answer
from
Council in that situation so you've got
a car park outg grade you want to turn
that that at an open space by putting
the car park underneath the open space
that would be entirely appropriate and
wouldn't be wouldn't wouldn't offend
this point of this so and but I think
the broader the broader point is also
made that this this motion despite its
intent can't bind future councils and
prevent future councils from making any
decision they want so he it does not but
my understanding is the intent is that
if you can replace a car parking in the
immediate vicinity or the or or in the
general Precinct then that it wouldn't
offend this Motion in any case thank you
Mr CR that's exactly the int just one
more question and then I'll debate thank
you counil s k i I feel that I and
getting to the question I don't really
understand the potential consequences of
this motion particularly in relation
to what we're doing with public open
space in the
Mac
does I mean can the officers assist me
with the potential implications about in
relation to
that through through each CH my
understanding of the intent of the
motion is that car parking is not to be
removed unless it is replaced in the in
the immediate vicinity to allow open
space to replace it was is this is I
understand the intent so if the car pack
is being replaced that's fine if the car
park is not being replaced that's not
fine okay I will debate this motion says
that Council resolve to exclude any
current car parking sites and any
existing on street car parking within
activity centers from conversion into
open space that's what it says and for
me that goes totally against the
flexibility that we need to find public
open space within our major activity
centers yes we need to maintain car
parking I absolutely get that but I want
to be able to look at current car
parking sites um because I don't live in
la la land I know land is incredibly
expensive to buy and if we want public
open space at our Max we need to look at
everything we need to have all the
options on the table and make the right
decisions for the right space now I
understand Church Street completely I'm
not about to
touch on street car parking in Church
Street what's worth working it's working
Church Street is fabulous don't fix
something that's working um but I'm not
happy with the potential wide sweeping
implications that these words carry now
it may not be counselor elan's intent
but that is what is written and if it's
not his intent let's find words or hits
up to him to find words that capture his
intent and these do not thank you
councelor Martin just a question would
this exclude
parklets
um s chair now it wouldn't as I
understand it the the intent we're going
back to the intent and I think the
intent is relatively clear when you read
it in totality in particular in in
relation to part three of the motion
it's saying no net loss of car parking
as a result of the
creation of open space in Max it's I
think the the clear intent that that I'm
reading into this motion so if a
partnership Arrangement was entered into
with with another landowner in a
Precinct is provided that the car
parking com the overall car park
publicly the public car park was of of
the same quantity then it wouldn't
offend that either better councelor Del
I have a question when I when I can
ask yes yes you can ask it Madam
mayor just the question of U Council
officers can we by a commercial
building in an activity center knock it
down and turn into open space a bit like
what we did with the the whing well stre
that was what years ago and can that be
can can we use the open space Reserve to
do that and how much is there in the
open space Reserve
currently
through Madame mayor under the
subdivision act um the public open space
contributions can be utilized to
purchase land um and also enhance
existing open space so yes you could
provide property um which may have a
asset on it whether it be residential
commercial or industrial to um to
provide for public open space in
relation to the quantum within the
Reserve I understand it's in the order
of $26 million
26
is there any other councilors wishing to
debate councelor
castelli definitely support this noce of
motion parking is
terrible um in activity centers and I
know that it's because I seem to go
round and round and round looking for
one parking
spot I must I must be going at the wrong
times maybe more peak times but I tell
you what it's not not really good so
look there are several reasons why
maintaining parking in activity
centers is
important okay so some of them some of
it is
accessibility adequate parking ensures
that people including those with
Mobility challenges and those rely on
cars can access businesses and services
in the area so then think about the
economic impact if we delete or take out
parking the the the you know
availability can significantly impact
the economic Vitality of activity
centers easy parking encourages more
people to visit which can lead to
increased businesses for local shops and
restaurants
convenience for many people especially
those with families who would need to
transport Goods mind you I walk down to
the activity center but I I kind of when
you're walking in a um coals or a
woolies you you find the items in there
that you need oh yeah I'll better take
that and you end up with three four bags
and I've got to walk home with these
three four bags I always do this to
myself next time I'll bring my car so um
so it is
convenient parking near the destination
is essential for those especially cannot
who cannot especially
elderly um and also with parking it's it
might seem funny but it does reduce
traffic congestion of those sorts by
providing Apple parking activities
centers can help reduce the number of
cars circling around this in search of
par in spots which I do quite
constantly um and this also leads to
less congestion and smoother traffic
flow and a more pleasant
experience for both drivers and
pedestrians then you've got your um
there there's other things but I won't
go into that but I'll finish there but
there my points why this
motion is a good motion and should be
kept
absolutely councelor Martin yeah I'll
I'll I'll have a go this um I I did
actually I had to reread it when it came
out in
December um because I think it just came
a month or two after we opened the
pocket park on seven W Street which was
actually e marked to be a a car park for
the Church Street mac and then straight
after that where we're restricting any
other chance of pocket Parks being made
in any other
Max
point4 m m
sorry the point of order would be
it's not it's not relevant the pocket
park in Wall Street was not parking
we're talking about current car parking
sites is
that so I think whenever it's not a
point of order I understand so councilor
Martin you can continue to debate please
I I think whenever you put restrictions
on the council offices you make their
life more difficult
and there are so many hurdles to jump
before anything can happen anyway this
is just
another
um a bureaucratic hurdle really and we
just heard from the CEO that look the
next Council can change it or do
whatever so I sort of think why are we
putting obstacles in the place of
progress sometimes um opportunities come
up that none of us could
foresee and the officers have to to
discard them because we've got this in
front of us when it could have been a
really good win-win outcome we've got so
many strategies and policies and
guidance to to guide the council to make
sure that we make good decisions this is
very very strict it's very
restrictive and um it it could prevent
us from ending up with some win-wins
regarding open space pocket parts and
the um the progress of a Max councelor
Castelli's experience in her car which
I've actually witnessed recently I
assisted councelor castelli um parking
her car in one of one of the underground
car parks and offer in baysite it's
quite an experience um quite a large car
isn't it did I get a I did a good job
but anyway I um I I heard her experience
and I agree it is difficult finding a
car park it's only going to get worse
we're not going to build enough ever in
the history mankind to to cater for the
amount of people growing in the max
there is an enormous amount of evidence
about this I sat on the um Metropolitan
transport forum for this very reason to
learn about it all and pretty much
they're all warning us they were saying
you need to make sure that your Macs are
well Urban PL and push the cars out and
encourage people to come in in other
forms of
transport and if we don't focus on on
that part if we just focus on the car
parking we'll all be just driving round
and round and round in circles um so no
I don't I don't support this because
it's restricting our own Council offices
in doing the job that we employ them to
do councelor Elmo Alam did you wish to
did you have a question counselor I
haven't spoken yet you haven't spoken
apologies please speak and I have no
questions and you have no thank you
Madame mayor Madam mayor look it's very
simple
car parking is absolutely essential for
the life and and the health of our
shopping centers I I confess to you
that I'm sometimes go to South Planet
chck one of the reasons why I go there
is because there's never a shortage of
car pars you go in there you buy what
you want you get out and guys usually do
that they don't hang around too much
doing other stuff Dilly ding I say U mad
mayor we need to support our shopping
settings we need to support them by
making sure that we don't lose more car
Parks so number one we have some of
the greatest Village shoing CS in the
country not just Church Street I mean
you got Martin Street the conquest is
lovely Bluff Road is absolutely
beautiful but we need to retain those
car Parks we we can't say well look it
would be lovely to have a mall there
close that street over there because put
some gums over there be lovely you'll
kill the Traders you'll kill the shops
and I mean we've talked about this
before I mean it would be lovely for
everyone to ride their bike you know
what I'm 70 you know I will ride my
electric bike when I can but I'm not I'm
not going to go shopping with it even if
I got a little basket at the B it's just
not Bible I live 2 kilm from Church
Street one kilometer for Bay Street so
you know I go for walks there I might
actually go to Bay Street and buy a bag
full of groceries just one but that's it
you need to be able to get the car there
to help you take go shopping so it's
it's it's a no-brainer we've seen what
could happen if you actually start
closing down streets to cars and you
create malls Ackland Street we've talked
about it before it's dead you know and
I've gone to Oakley I go to Oakley to
check out that shopping center there's
only one healthy Street and it's where
the restaurants are the rest of this the
street Oakley is also dead so you know
that's the reality of it so let's
support our shopping centers we have $26
million in the bank for open space we
don't have to eat up our car Parks if we
want to go ahead and buy a building and
knock it down and make it into open
space for any shopping center we can do
it we have that money there that's just
earning interest for our Community
which is is lovely but we can actually
use it for something so my view is that
it's it's a no-brainer we don't want I'm
not going to be complicit in killing off
a shopping centers with too much love
for you know the idea having just people
walking you know and having cupina down
the street you need to be able to allow
them to trade and make a dollar to do
that you have to allow people to get
there by car and that's how it is you
know we I think there are more people in
my situation who live between one to 2
kilm or more from shopping centers and
there are people living who are like
enough to live in the activity center so
that's the reality 10% of people Liv in
activity centers the other 90% Liber you
need more cars we need to be able to
allow people to have certainty that
those cars are not going to be eaten up
by you know yet another little dream
that we have so yeah happy to support it
councelor Evans thank you madam May um
yeah I was going Every Which Way with
this um this one there are parts of this
that I really like and parts that really
concern me the the parts I really
like are um the consideration multiv
Deck Parking with roof with u open
space at roof level I know you don't
Madam mayor and you and I have had
debates about this at of different
levels but again I do support that I do
support that um and I've seen it in a
number of cities and I think it does
work well so I agree with that the the
thing about um the L I was in favour of
making ball down at um in melr street
but let me say um there was a lot of
community anst about that and maybe it's
not the right time or maybe that um
people were telling us about as
Council Delo saying that they need car
Parks right out front of their um of
their shop for them to exist now trading
is tough and it's a tough business
business and sometimes they don't help
themselves in a lot of the ways in which
they go about things but again it's a
tough business and I do think that we
should support them so I think on a
balance I'm getting I'm getting a good
vibe from the CEO that the intention
of this is is a good intention and so I
think that the sort of things that
um the the purchase if you really
want open space in an activity center
then purchase it and but in a in a in a
what let me take let me say about
sandham you know parts of that is you
may be able to do something about the
the roadway and all of that with open
space within that and not take not take
um car parking away let's say in melro
street I hearken um down in Black Rock
there are probably circumstances where
you could provide a purchase of
land without um taking away car parking
so I see that the intention of this is
probably a very good one I think that if
there is something that I disagree with
in the long run about um where it goes
or where it doesn't go I'll vote against
it at that particular time so again you
know I'm I'm sort of leaning towards
that I think they'll support this if
there's something that in the future
that I don't support I'll vote against
it so again um I I did listen to the
malose Street people when they are
talking about I did disagree with them
um but again I think part of the
learning curve of councilors is also to
listen to community you may disagree
with them but also um that gave me a
little bit of a listening um and did
determine something my my values
about well you know I don't think that's
right at that particular time so I think
I'll support this in the
way um I think that it complicates a
number of our current strategies and so
I won't be supporting it councelor
Elam did you wish to close yes of course
I like Madame mayor as you heard from
the CEO you can at any time if it is
specific to an item you can decide on
that item what the Traders are concerned
about is what I heard earlier from my
fellow councilors is push cars out they
don't want to see the cars getting
pushed out of retail strips we looked
into the mro street and guess what
Emergency Services rote to us they were
not in support of that street being
closed there is consequences
unfortunately we are not considering
when we close streets and remove parking
you know you can find any excuse Under
the Sun not to support my notice of
motion but the basics here are we should
not be pushing cars out because the
Traders rely on them we got 26 million
and I can guarantee you soon this would
be 30 and 35 million in open space
contribution that can provide open space
and just for the record even though I
respectfully disagree with you seven
Wall Street was never a car park this
relate to current car parking sites
seven Wall Street was never a car park
council could not reone it planning
Minister did not support resoning it to
a car park I really hope it gets through
because you know you got your tomm next
election you can go to the Traders and
tell them I'm going to advocate for
closing streets push the cars out of
your retail strips and see if you can
get
elected all those in favour councilors
castelli Del Porto Evans El mam all
those against councilors Martin Samuel
King and sfold
carried notice of motion 33 two
alternative Hing sources to substitute
guess Hing on foot paths I understand
you wish to move an amendment I would
like to see guess Amendment please take
can leave we with Council thank you do I
have a second off for the leave to amend
yesk you want to see what the amendment
was yes I just we're just granting leave
just gr I'm voting on granting leave
yeah I say I need to read here the
script um right
so who's moving
this and seconding
Evans all those in favour councilors
castelli Del Porto Evans Martin Samuel
King El moram and sfold all those
against sorry councilor Martin you did
have your hand up thank you um
moved carried and not Madam may I like
the notice of motion to read that can
you we have the alternate please on the
screen that Council amends the footpath
trading policy 2023 specifically in
relation to section 5.7 to provide for
transitional
requirements for all G heers to be
discontinued as part of the 20206 permit
renewal process for footpath
trading and be further Ed by the 2024
elected Council prior to the 2026 ual
process good thank you thank you coun I
did you wish to debate yes of course
first of all I'd like to thank my fellow
councilors on the advice that I received
in relation to this so that is similar
to the car parking I'm not sure if if
you're aware Madame mayor but by August
this year our Traders if if was still to
run the way it was under our footpath
policy and when they apply for a foot
pass a permit this year in August they
would be told you can't have your
Gaters I've spoken to a number of the
triers and they were just Gob smacked
they didn't believe they had no idea
it's happening so what this motion
trying to do here is again what I said
before when you go for the elections
next year which happening in November
this year you can tell the Traders
listen I want to discontinue all the
usage of gas heaters on your footpaths
and and let them decide on who they are
going to support for this what I found
out is Madame mayor is I could not I
actually looked for a mobile electric
heater I just couldn't find one without
a cable dragging you know there is not
one battery operated without a cable you
need you can get one with a cable and
you can plug it and then good luck with
an O ohns requirements I could not find
an electric that the Traders can utilize
instead of their guas but let's assume
there is there is is one run on infrared
or some some
invention what I was told by some
Traders is they are already at capacity
in their
switchboards so imagine you found that
and you want to run the electricity and
the electricity switches off and all of
a sudden you got no electricity to run
your
business now some of them actually
told me they would need to upgrade the
switchboards and one in specific he
need to upgrade the HV cing leading to
the switchboard and that is some subst
itial cost so what this notice of motion
doing here is rather than taking them by
surprise and telling them listen you you
cannot put these gas heaters go tell
your customers outside they need to
bring on more jackets or go somewhere
else this is giving them giving the new
Council an opportunity to look at it and
decide if they want to remove it as I
understand these businesses are still
operating with gas inside of them
so if there is gas already inside the
business I don't see the reason of not
having gas heaters on the outside thank
you councelor yeah m madame may I think
that I think Council should be leading
by example but I think we also have to
allow for the fact that you've got
traders that are struggling to make a
living and this is going to cost
thousands of dollars for particular
Hospitality venue
around Bayside so I think this gives
them an extra year it also allows for
the new Council in November or early
next year to decide whether they want
to stop it in 20 start it in 2026 or
give it another EUR or so gas is out
it's just whether it's going to be out
today or in a in a day or two that's all
that's all this is saying and it
allows tra traders to actually prepare
for it and maybe put some money away so
that they can actually do it in 26 at
this
stage councelor Evans and then councelor
thank you Madame yeah I thank
councelor ELO alen for changing that it
did concern me about um not a transition
you know I do think as councelor Del
Paulo said that we should be setting
examples we should be saying phasing out
of gas we should be doing it in our home
we should be doing it in um in any
of our of our community ex um
places we also should be asking um
commercial people to do exactly the same
thing but again you know it has to be a
transitional thing it is big bucks and
you know you can't just shut the door
and say you know those that's the day
see you later and you know there are a
number of things c el Alam says you know
things that switchboards have to be
upgraded um a whole lot of things things
that just need to be done but it's it's
a huge thing so yes we should be setting
an example we should be then asking for
the transitional period and again I
think it does need a couple of years
transition before people be able
to sort of take this as far as paying
for other forms of energy but we should
be we should be encouraging other PE
the the dismissal of gas within all
parts of bides yeah councelor Martin
yeah just a question does this have any
effect on current Council implementation
plans
what through you madam chair um it
doesn't necessarily have a direct
impact um or it's not even um
contravention of but it may slow down
the delivery of some of our climate
emergency action plans as we encouraged
the transition to move to um metet
zero
misss did you wish to debate Council
Martin I'll reserve
it councilor Samuel King may ask a
question back to that question will it
have a significant impact on our
community Target um action plans do we
know have we attempted to quantify
that through you chair we haven't got
any figures that relate specifically to
gas heers in this
way so do we have any idea what
percentage of community emissions gas
heaters in um shopping strips represent
I'd assume it's quite small yes I would
imagine it's quite it's quite small
relative to residential use of gas um
our Electrify everything campaign um is
predominantly focusing on um residential
use of gas um nonetheless it's a
component of that thank
you can yeah look I I'm happy to support
this with that Amendment um the the the
rationale behind this is they've raised
concerns there are currently no feasible
alternative options Electrify everything
is coming there will be options and the
um difficulty in accessing electric
electricity Supply safety and the cost
associated with the upgrading of
electricity switchboards to accommodate
um electric heaters gives them time to
do that um because we all know that you
got to keep investing in your your
business to stay in business the vast
majority of biders want us to implement
the Bayside climate action plan and that
is why we're doing all the work we're
currently doing to Electrify everything
so we can make sure that people have a
nice pathway out of fossil fuels and
into sustainable power and the best way
to to do that is to lead um and to do it
in a balanced way so this this is this
hits that Mark but you know the the
Traders should understand you need to
invest in your businesses there's not
enough actually Electric electrical
supply um that needs to be addressed by
the utilities but um the switchboards
and and um acquiring the actual electric
heers this gives the Traders plenty of
time to to do it and and this will also
which has been great for Council William
to inform them that change is
coming councelor Elma wellam did you
wish to close don't oh sorry counc
Celli quickly very quickly look I pretty
much support um this amendment and
support the transitioning and giv time
to the retailers the Traders um to to
access some finances or something that
would help them transition into this so
look look there's barriers um
infrastructure can be significant
barriers for businesses especially
smaller
ones um a few points to consider
also why I'm in favour of this motion so
we're looking at I had a whole spill of
things but I'm going to cut down cost
implications upgrading electrical
infrastructure rure to accommodate
electric heaters can be very expensive
especially to small businesses operating
on a tight budget so the cost could be
prohibitive for many businesses leading
to financial strain and over and also
even closure so I'll go on to
say
consider you know the community impact
small businesses are often an integral
part of local communities providing
employment and services if we were to
impact them with this clo you know this
financial
burden you know to upgrade into electric
which we're probably not fully ourselves
we're still using fossil fuel which is
probably going to be an impact to our
environment if you're forcing people to
transition into elect
heaters because there'll be an abundant
of those in the
landfill um and it's not going to help
anyway the environment or climate change
so um so to upgrade could have an
economic and social impacts and people
could lose their jobs over this so I'm
happy to support the transition giving
them time to be able to get some
Financial low interest loans or anything
that would help them
along the transition thank you councelor
Castell counc ELO did you wish to close
yeah thank you councel Castell it's
actually a good idea maybe providing
some help some financial assistance and
one one thing that we forgot to talk
about is some of these heaters to be
effective if they are to be electric
they need to be installed on Council
infrastructure and I don't believe
now we have the mechanism or it's not
readily available allowing them to start
digging the foot paaths just to start
installing cables that's something we
need to look at and that gives us an
opportunity and gives us enough time for
the economic development team to
actually start looking at it and talking
to the Traders about it I'm I'm you
know I'm really surprised that um we
really we're going to roll it like this
and it concerned me I am really hoping
we can start talking about it make them
aware of it and as I mentioned the my
fellow councilors more than welcome to
go to the community explain to them
their position on this before the next
election and if they want to consult at
the as a new Council when they get
you elected or run for election good on
them I'll I'll be actually I know
where I stand on it I absolutely have
have no problem with the gas heers right
now specifically as the some of these
businesses are already running on gas
thank you all those in favour councilors
castelli Del Porter Evans Martin Samuel
King Elma wellam and sfold there are
none against
carried we now move to number it item 14
confidential business councilors may I
have a motion that the remainder of the
meeting be dealt with camera second
secondly councelor Evans
and
the thank you everyone we'll allow the
chamber to vacate and we will close the
cameras